angrydurf

I had completely forgotton about that ... well it does make his bluff a bit more convinceing when you can't see with your own eyes that he's a lying lier :D

First off welcome to FCPbP I'm not a Ref so I can't shoot you an approval but I think this character is awesome a few quick things, You mention he was a fan of Renard Rouge and spitfire jones type heroes, those are all golden age not silver age (very minor difference). Seocondly, and this is a much more minor quibble, His skill with a blade is really well beyond olympic potential certainly as a young prodigy he would be good but that might be a bit extreme. You might consider that as he unlocked the power of the card etc it passed on the knowledge and even lost forms of previos bearers or some such. But as I said thats a minor thing Solid character in my opinion (not a ref so not gonna comment on the numbers but it looks like a well built character to me )

Well I think rather than say they can't come back we say tehy come back under exceptional circumstances for specific plots. Unlike PC villians who eternally evade capture or are out in record time. It seems kind of counter intuitive in a way to say NPC villians have rules X and PC villinas hve rules Y but this is primarily to allow the PC villians to be in continuous play. NPCs are eternally disposable PC's are not. That said even NPCs still need to be watched for goign overboard on what we want for the tone.

Initiative (1d20+2=12) So is it my action then since he went? I'm assumeing that I'm not the surprised one ;)

Thats fine, actually detonating the ferries? Not OK I think this is the kind of thing best kept to NPCs to do when its an arc that the PC hero is interested in. Eventually any villian who does this kind of thing really is likely to be taken out of play. Attempt absolutely I would love to have a good ole fashioned attempted genocide. Key word attempted this isn't the villina trying to kill the world one at a time and getting stopped along the way this is a doomsday device/ritual that the heroes have to stop. (with the villina escaping while they foil his plan. Like I said above the threat should be very real the act should just not happen outside of exceptional circumstances (of course if a hero is a tool and leaves his girlfriend to drown so he can finish off the villian thats a different sotry ) The threat of injured/killed inocents should be what stays the Heroes hands from opening up on a villian full bore, a little like Bats take on Joker that you can't kill him because you might not succeed and then he will kill everything. (though Joker does ebough to warrent the risk IMHO the theory is sound and I think applies)

I think a couple key points have been brought up here. Mainly that we need to move even PvP threads more to a narrative than a pure die roll conclusion. Also both sides of the fence need to be more flexible with how threads end. No one can out run DS for instance, so Cyroa has to be willing to let the villian go if the villian isn't going to be arrested/incarcerated/whatever. Ace and Scarab through different methods can find just about any villian and their hide out and bring down the assembled heroes of the city on thier head if we choose. We need to not do that. Villains need to be flexible and understand that they need to run alot earlier than Heroes do in a fight. You don't wait till you're all but unconcious to flee you flee when the battle starts to go against you becasue the penalty for getting caught is greater than the reward of "winning". All of this is predicated on discussion at the begining of the thread of where the Narrative is going to go. If the dice change that up or the situation begins to evolve discussion is key once again. The Trial is a perfect example of this not happening. We went into that thread with no clue if Knieval was supposed to get free or if it was just going to be the nail in the coffin of his case and he'd escape later. Another related Idea I have for PvP threads is a new use for HP/VP which is to give you're opponant a setback that allows you to escape the ultimate fate. Villian can burn a VP when trying to flee to have a buss of schoolkids teetering on the brink of a colapsed highway or they fall into the sea and are assumed "dead" and Heroes can burn one for the freedom league or star squad to be seen approaching. This gives an IC reason for the Hero to let the villian go or the villian to run away despite "victory" (With wonderflonium in hand of course). If a villian is caught I think its important to have threads available for them while incarcerated, from foiled breakout attempts to prison riots to visits from their captor. Villians also do need to be Silver age/Bronze age villians. So "just" wanton destruction isn't really an interesting motivation. knieval, The poster boy for that, is growin out of that to more interesting capers. Any other Villian can too. Its also important to recognize that IG the threat of the villian killing people is very real even if OOG we all know they won't manage to they should not manage too because the heroes stop them (perhaps allowing the villian to escape in the process)

Mike Nodded briefly with a flicker of convern that Alex might get jumped by the other one but he knew he could be here in seconds if anything did go down. He turned and headed for the street keeping pace with Mark as the emerged from the library and took in the scene on the street.

MIke delays till Edges action and paces him on the way to the street.

Initiative (1d20=16)

Uh oh. Mike thought as the dumb kid walked away. He was about to suggest they switch having some concerns about Erin managing to rieghn it in but she had gotton better and the only way she'd know that is if she saw it herself in the field. He hurried to the computer and plucked the device fromt eh back quickly scanning the other terminals to see if they had anything similar installed before rushing to find Alex and Mark. 'He stuck something in the computer I grabbed it and Erin is tailing him.' he thought to alex hurredly as he sought them out. Once he found them he quickly showed Alex asking in a low rumble "Bomb?"

"Got it." Mike siad quietly and concentrated for a moment 'Uhm Alex?' He quieried tentitively, 'That kid from the base ball game is here, and Erin is kinda spoiling for a fight.' He left unsaid his question as to why the little nutjobs weren't in jail. He used his height to peer over what he could of the shelves and try and spot the other one.

The sharp elbow to the ribs served to snap Mikes attention back to the matter at hand luckily before his second guessing led to an explanation of his earlier behavior. He glanced over at the delinquent and sighed, this was not going at all as planned. "Are they out of Jail?" He asked he had rather avoided the news casts of their exploits and the aftermath after seeing the pricetag on a replacement Freedom-tron on some talking heads show. Alex had said Dr. Metropolis had fixed it but the whole thing had left him soured on it. "I dunno what he's up to. He might just be useing the internet?" He said questioningly though he knew these sorts would have it at home so something was up. "Should I tell Alex?" he asked.

Mike paused looking from the young couple to Erin and back. To most he it probably looked like he was uncertain to stick with Erin or Alex and Mark. In his own head however he was at a sudden loss of what to do, this was not going accordign to plan at all. Well Improvisation was key Chris had said, or it it least sounded like somethign Chris would say. He smiled down and Erin with a relitively convincing wink and said, "I'll join you," With a smile, "Mark can probably handle the heavy lifting." He of course did not realize at all that it might sound like he was hinting at giving Alex and Mark alone time thinking instead he was being the epitome of smooth and flirtatious.

Ok move to the front and distract Malice Skill mastery renders a 32 Bluff. For expediancy I'm willing to roll with Malice buying Aces bluff and escaping so we can end this quicker (since Malice has an urgent date with a boom in three days ) Otherwise I'll Surge to add a taunt effect DC 32 to the statement.

After the explosion Ace realized the others may not have things as under control as he had hoped. Knieval really couldn't get far if he did get away and right now there was something blowing the heck out off two historic landmarks and likely some of his fellow heroes. Sure there might not be much Ace could do against firepower of that kind but that had never stopped him before. Leaving Knieval to sort out reality on his own Ace rushed to the front of the courthouse arriving just in time to hear Malices crazed rant. Personally Ace blamed Fox News. "Hey Big, clunky and soon to be incarcerated you're buddy's already back in custody and the whole damn League is gonna be here at any moment." He accented his point with a gesture to a lingering jet contrail that just might be mistaken for an incoming Captain Thunder and allies.

Mike nodded agreement but continued to be distracted by something, if they didn't know better his friends would probably guess he was conversing with Alex over their mental link but both of them tried to avoid that amongst friends so as to not be rude. He shifted from one foot to the other and smiled at his friends, a somewhat strained gesture on the usually sullen boys face but clearly he was trying to be on good behavior and not be a downer. "Yea its nice," He said as he took a step to the door and held it open for his friends, "As is the company." His restatement of Marks complement was not handled with the same grace but what it lacked there it made up for in earnest effort.

Mike piled out of the car and shrugged at Eddies suggestion looking questioningly to Mark and Alex before agreeing, "I could use a little something to eat." Of course with a growing boy Mikes age a little might be a large pizza but the point was the same and he happily followed the group towards the pizza parlor.

I think the real decision to be made is if we want a Silver (Or bronze) age game or not. There are a ton of Silver Age villina concepts out there there were years of comics with some of the more memorable villians that came out of the silver age. If you really can't make a villian that fits that maybe tthis isn't the game for you Same goes for heroes. If we let villians start to kill etc then there are two options available really we scrap this whole Silver/Bronze concept and go Iron and have a bloodbath in every thread as the Heroes and villians go all out on one another or we have the "faceless state" clean up the mess and if you're a murderer you lose your character when you get caught (to death penalty or life imprisonment in inescapable prison) Niether of those are really options I personally espouse so I think by far the simpler answer is make a silver/bronze age villian that has a code of honor and won't kill/maim/rape/destroy/whatever. I have to also agree/disagree with Shaen on the Villians never beign allowed as PCs. On the one hand he is right they shouldn't have been in my opinion, on the other hand they have been and there are a not insignifigant number of players who have them and would want to keep them so its too late to really change that.

Burn an HP for begginers luck Intimidation for atotal of +12 Intimidation check (1d20+12=27) +any bonus you see fit to award for showing up in his house batman style ;)

The descision was almost made for him as the mesenger headed off towards the elevator again. Ace quickly snapped a shot on his cells camera and called one of his police contacts passing the photo along as a description of the man along with a hurried update of where he was leaving from and his destination. Hopefully the Police could get ahold of him but the fellow rigth here seemed to be a more direct route to the information Ace needed. He waited until the mans back was turned to drop his sense clouding effect and Spoke to catch the mans attention, "I think you and I have alot to talk about Jeeves." His voice was dripping with meanace Ace Danger was not feeling particularly polite at the moment.

Mike decided against flying and instead ran over to the back gate hopping fences when needed to get quickly to the back gate. Once there he carefully watched for any more unusual activity. He focused and thoght to Psyche 'I'm watching the back gate I'll let you know if I catch sight of anything.'

Mike sighed heavily he had kinda been afraid of this. He didn't really know how to explain his reservations about a more romantic relationship with Alex, or anyone really for that matter. He just didn't feel prepared for that kind of relationship in general and knew that he wasn't ready to be that for anyone no less Alex was he? Not to mention she was dating one of his best friends even if she did say yes that would be awkward to say the least and possibly worse if she said no. Words failed him for a time but he finally thought of a way to explain himself better, "I'm not afraid of losing her, either way really." He sighed uncomfortably emotions werre not his strong suit, "Not to mention she's dating Mark which to say the least would be awkward regardless of what she says." She seemed happy with the idea of Mark and if he hurt her well Mike was confident Mark wasn't that kind of guy. "I think I get what you mean, missing my chance and all that, but I just don't feel like her dating someone else interferes with what we do have." he shifted uncomfortably when he said it outloud it already felt like something of a betrayel of Mark to continue to be as close as he was with Alex but he chose not to dwell on that uncomfortable truth. A part of him realized that Alex and Mark really were not going to become anything permanent, he almost wished that wasn't the case Alex deserved a good guy like Mark.

Absolutely, which is why I don't. That just gets harder to explain away with superior morality when the Jet Powered Ape is a killer and likely to do it again. I agree with quote actually that not taking a character out of play is an important part of the equation. We all like our characters and want to be able to keep playing them. I think however the entire concept of justice becomes a joke when wanton murderers are back on the streets in days. Thats a problem. Heres the core thing I think that you should have the option of doing whatever you like with your character it just has consequences Villain or Hero. If Knieval begins an ethnic cleansing campaign against mutants then gets caught he's SOL dead or imprisoned forever and out of play. Important part "IF he gets caught." This means that he'd have to be seen killing then after that be taken in to the authorities. But same goes for Heroes. Cross the line and kill a villian (Or bystanders caugh caugh Arrowhawk) and your Bona Fides are revoked and likely you are arrested/incarcerated or hunted down. Having it both ways shouldn't be an option frankly. If you want to play a crazy murderous mutant hater, or ageless soulsucking mage fine but you are not going to be kept in a minimum security prison that you waltz out of if/when you get caught.

largly used to enforce a "No killing" rule on villians. I think that may be a mistake and this should be left more to consequences. If you kill you just "flagged" yourself as being killable. This means that if you take things to that level and you are ever caught your character is done start over with a new one either the hero taking you out or the state will end your murderous ways permanent like. Immortal? Inescapable prison either way the character is out of play. This is the risks game. The second part of consequences is standard villiany, Robbery, assault, Property destruction, etc. These things are much more minor but still have consequences if caught. Problem is that we want people to be able to participate in the game not sit stewing in prison for months with no threads. But a revolving door prison where you are back on the streets in a week or two isn't effective on a an IG or OOG level. So the question is should Players of Villians be punished for thier Villian being caught? If so loosening some of the rules on avoiding being caught might be in order a few PP on a emergency Teleporter or diplomatic immunity (Ala DOOM) can go a long way. Variety, really what we get here as far as villians go is pretty limited, We certainly get a variety of descriptors but basically they are the crazy anti-authority property destroyers, very little motivation of greed or even really meglomania (arguably they all have a healthy dose of this but they still don't have minions). I think this is both due to the restrictions on killing etc as well as a known dislike for the summon/minions power and "bathroom masterminds". We don't get the really murderous Kill All X types, nor do we get the carefull planners really, The one area that I think is underexplored in general is good old fashioned greed and there certainly isn't a rules reason behind that IMHO. I don't really have a solution to the Variety issue honestly some of it is certainly just player preferance and "bathroom" anything is not exactly exciting unless a fair leeway is give the player to construct elaborate plots for the Heroes to solve but that really more like GMing a thread than playing a character. I do think that it really comes back to what kind of consequences we want for villians. Are they knocked out of play by losing? What do they "get" in return? I will also say that Heroes are just as tied if not more so by no killing than villians in many ways mostly because the villians often "deserve" it more. In every thread where Ace has faced a villian I have come away going "You idiot you should have just smothered X with a pillow. The world woudl be a better place." Especially when the villians are going to easily escape and go back in play. But that is what led to the Iron Age which is not what we're doing so I stick to the hero code and do the dumb thing ;)

Phalanx: Paragon Array cost is screwy Drop one point off the array value to bring it to array 7, buy both APs the dynamic feat (which has to be outside the Array as Shaen and I argued about in chat ) that'll bring the arrays total cost to 17. Add the Shockwave PF to Super-strength. Final version should look like Paragon Array 7 (PFs: Alternate Power, Dynamic 2) [17] BE: Flight 7 AP: Super strength 6 (PFs: Bracing, Shockwave) New super sense to be added Communication link (Zephyr) [1] bringing the total Super sense to: Super Senses 2 (Comunication Link: Psyche and Zephyr) Total cost on those edits should be 2 points. I'll save the others till I find out What is allowed to be arrayed with what. Done by Sandman XI