So did anyone get D&D 4E?

[Dr Archeville]

If so, what do you think?

And to make this have a tangential link to M&M: based on my understanding of the new GSL (Game System Licese), it is significantly different from the OGL (Open Game License), under which Mutants & Masterminds and other excellent game systems were developed. It seems to me that the GSL makes it so broad, high-quality third party support for the D&D 4E ruleset will be very difficult, in part because the GSL is basically a license to make products solely to support 4E Fantasy D&D, and in part because WotC can take things produced by third parties under the GSL and make them a part of the GSL ("thanks for your work, this is now ours"); after that, any future products by the third party can only reference the swiped things in name, with no game mechanics. Additionally, even those third parties that produce 4E compatible products have to abandon (stop producing and selling, and destroy stock) OGL products in "the same line", and WotC can terminate the GSL at any time, at which point the third party 4E-compatible product lines are done, too.

Imagining gaming life in the past decade or so with the new GSL instead of the OGL, picture this: in 2002, a third party company produces a supers RPG using the ruleset licensed by WotC. It's a hit! In 2006, WotC starts producing supers stuff with naming conventions for hero classes and mechanics similar to the third party's game, intended or not. The third party must cease producing and selling its supers products.

Or, less "Lone Gunmen" conspiracy-theory, the supers line goes on for several years, without WotC straying from the fantasy milieu and producing a supers game. However, in 2008, when WotC produces a new edition of D&D, they terminate the license for the old edition. The third party must cease producing and selling its supers products.

Same could go for third party fantasy products that create new D&D-like classes and mechanics.

[Ryoga]

SPOILERS WITHIN!

Just came in the mail yesterday. As far as the book content and such, I think this is one of the best. Sure, they axed Gnomes, whine, whine, but they added Tieflings and Dragon-born. I also like the layout of this book a lot more. Classes have their spells and abilities and such in the same section as the class. No more flipping back and forth through the book trying to figure things out. Also, they now add artifacts and 'Concordance' (How much your artifact likes you on a scale of 1-20 means it'll be more powerful in your hands).

There's a lot more, but I really liked it.

Now the GSL, All I can say to that is BS. it's WotC flexing their ever-growing muscles. WotC seems to have gone from the local shop's best friend, giving supplements, and respecting third party, to realizing the power it holds with various franchises, the games, gleemax, dreamscape, Magic, etc... and saying, 'We need you, but we want profit more, so you make this stuff, we take, and you work for us now....No! Of course were not like the Mafia!'

Ah..Sorry. I like the book, but WotC is starting to worry me, and make gaming future seem like more and more of a monopoly.

[Endless Flight]

I was on the edge between getting it or not, but I probably won't now.

[Master_Pelle]

I self got all those core books and I must say I like the rules but it almost required to have figures with battlegrid if you want to have to take advantage of tactical combat.

But a good thing when I bought those book at release date, is that I got a voucher where I can get a free character record and GM screen when they release them.

I have planning to buy some Dnd miniatures and game tiles. But for now I will use printed out black and white battlegrid and made paper token as minis.

For MnM, even it is based on D20 system it is completely different system from regular D20 system so that it become own system. So that why it don´t have any D20 logo like as other D20 system games. So it is unlikely it will be effected by the new GSL.

[Heridfel]

I pre-ordered it from Amazon and got it a couple days after it officially came out. I like the system so far, and I've even been working on making up a decent Barbarian class. Anyone who's interested in what I've been doing can check it out at http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=400868.

[Ryoga]

Alright, so I just got back from a session of DnD with a group i'm in. I ran a Eladren Wizard, 20 Int = Awesome.

For the Wizard class...

I really enjoy how the spells are done. Actually, for everyone. The At-Will, Encounter, and Daily use of abilities and spells is really nifty and makes things a lot easier. I'm starting to think I enjoy 4e a lot more. sure, no monks, sorcerers, gnomes etc...but it's really awesome. I really enjoyed it.

[Master_Pelle]

I pre-ordered it from Amazon and got it a couple days after it officially came out. I like the system so far, and I've even been working on making up a decent Barbarian class. Anyone who's interested in what I've been doing can check it out at http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=400868.

By looking at it, the barbarian should have higher hp and healing surge. The barbarian is like fighter but with more hit points like in 3.5 version where they acting like as violence meat tank.

By the way, It have been told about the barbarian class may be released in next year in Player´s Handbook 2.

[Dr Archeville]

I've heard most of the 3.5 Core Classes left out of 4E will be in the 2nd PHB.

WotC has had some articles up on "converting" 3.5 Classes into 4E. One article, dealing with all the classes from the 3.5 PHB, can be found here.

[nareik123]

Apparently, DnD 4E is based on World of Warcraft. Can anybody confirm this? I've had enough "Beautifully shaped elves" without people jumping on scarcely clad Night Elves!

[Shadowboxer]

Apparently, DnD 4E is based on World of Warcraft. Can anybody confirm this? I've had enough "Beautifully shaped elves" without people jumping on scarcely clad Night Elves!

I think the principle behind 4E is to produce a game that can compete with WoW. The emphasis on group tactics; the use of an online map with customized avatars; powers and feats that function like the ones found in WoW: the similarities are rather startling. However, the two universes are different from one another. I think the 4E setting is much darker than WoW, and the races are not always parallel. You won't find Night Elves in D&D, and there are no Dragonborn running around Azeroth.

I should also point out that WoW is largely based on D&D. :D

[Dr Archeville]

Yeah, there is some odd circular things going on with D&D 4E. WoW (and most MMORPGs; heck, most RPGs, period) owe a good deal to D&D. And now D&D's becoming more like MMOs (focus on parties in combat & clearly-defined roles for character classes being just two examples).

[nareik123]

Oh yes, are Fighters actually fun to play now?

I mean, Rangers, Paladins and Barbarians, plus the odd bard, Druid and cleric can fight in combat but have other entertaining abilities. Fighters only get bonus feats, which is slightly boring.

[Ryoga]

Fighters seem fun, the one in my group had a Maul, and he well...he cleaved a hell of a lot and was taking down things left and right. they also seem to have a bit more punch and oomph. overall, every class now gets some fun things, and nifty little tricks, all thanks to the At-will, encounter, and Daily powers.

Also, no minuses to stats depending on your race. sweet.

[Endless Flight]

I'm an old-school guy.

I like minuses. :mrgreen:

[nareik123]

It was like Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay:

I want to be a good speaker, but i only rolled a 2 on 2d10, so my speaking skilsl the worst and i can't do anything about it!

[sirgrail]

I like the Minion rules. I think it makes you feel more like a hero when you get to walk all over a room full of minions as you fight the big bad guy. I've always struggled to build encounters with the big villain but not unbalance things by giving him too many allies.

[Heritage]

From what I've seen myself and read here, I doubt I will be buying 4E anytime soon; if they hadn't released 3.5 I might be more willing, but having to buy the same three+ books three times in 8 years is asking a bit much. I've never played any MMORPGs, and I acknowledge that they're now targeting future generations who will be buying their products long after I'm dust and bones, but I am perfectly happy with 3.5 as it stands, and would prefer to spend my gaming dollars on MnM, Ars Magica and old Buffy RPG books.

The new gaming license also sounds rather ominous :?

[MBCE]

Right now, I'm in a game testing out a Wizard. I've been playing 3.5 since it came out and I have to be honest. 4e is nothing like it.

The problem I see is that there are some interesting things in the new edition but there are some major points that I really dislike about it.

The major beef I have with 4e is that it lacks the variety that 3.5 has. Yes, some of the rules are a headache in 3.5 but at least you have a lot of options to build different characters. No two wizards are like for example in 3.5. Things are different due to stats, feats, and spells taken.

In 4e, they've taken that variety and thrown it out of the window. You want to make a wizard? Well you need at least 2 stats high with a 3rd stat fairly high to get one of the better Feats in the game for Wizards. but you may say that this isn'T taking away variety. Oh, then you get to look at the powers that Wizards get. You get to pick 2 out of five at-will powers, 3 if you're a human, which means most people are going to be picking up the same powers.

Since they discourage random rolling for stats, you're going to see a lot of characters with the same stats for the same classes. Not very cool.

Yes, combat is quicker and easier. All movement is counted the same and with minions, it helps build epic fights. But where level 6-12 is the sweet spot for 3.5, 4e's sweet spot seems to be about 1st-5th. At least so far as the material that is out now. Once they start sending out new material, I expect that things will improve, but with the GSL, I doubt many 3rd parties are going to jump on the bandwagon.

I plan on continue playing 3.5 as my main source of fantasy fun, while dipping into 4e occasionally.

[Dr Archeville]

I've heard one 4E reviewer say some similar. That in 3.5, you had a ton of options when making your character, but not much once he was built, whereas 4E goes the other way, giving you few options to start with but lots of options down the line.

[MBCE]

I've heard one 4E reviewer say some similar. That in 3.5, you had a ton of options when making your character, but not much once he was built, whereas 4E goes the other way, giving you few options to start with but lots of options down the line.

I wonder about the down the road bit though. Right now, with just the three core books, PHB, DMG, and MM, I don't see there being a whole lot of room in the future either. They make you change powers at set locations which isn'T too bad, but you're still limited in how you can use them. Limit usage, no double preparing of powers, stuff that made 3.5 fairly fun has been wiped out.

I admit, I haven't really looked at higher levels yet. I tend to play from the beginning and find the holes as I go along. Hopefully, in future books they'll give more options and pick the holes my group has found already.

[Dr Archeville]

Anyone know why the lamia got changed from a Wisdom-draining tauric lion-woman to a swarm of bugs that devour eladrins (high elves) from the inside out & wear their skins as disguises?

[Ryoga]

Dunno, haven't got the new monster manual, but that sounds awesome either way.

[Dr Archeville]

The new lamia is a cool critter, but I'm trying to figure out why WotC didn't just give it a different name, rather than give it the name of an existing critter.

[Ryoga]

Maybe a different species? less evolved, more primal. They may release the old one for a campaign or something. Never know with WoTC, no matter how stupid what I just said sounds >.

[Heridfel]

Since the mythical lamia was a half-woman/half-serpent (similar to a naga, but not exactly), neither of the other conceptions make sense. Might as well be a hideous half-insect swarm; that's creepier than what it used to be.