ic And Carnal Forbearance (IC)

[Avenger Assembled]

"What does segregation have to do with it?" asked Judy, sounding more baffled than offended. "That was good people of all races coming together to make America a better place; it wasn't the Centurion flying in to tell everybody how to live. And super-people aren't like normal people; you can't be oppressed _and_ have the power to set people on fire," she said confidently. For her part, Ashley visibly scoffed at Janus's eyerolling, her face set in a hard scowl, and looked like she was about to say something in the Danger's direction before Judy broke in with a tight, "Ah don't think we should get distracted. The next thing we're supposed to talk about is what do you do if a supervillain finds out the secret identities of all the heroes on your team, and says he'll make sure everyone inside finds out too..." 

 

 

 

[angrydurf]

After his initial commentary Kam let the others speak observing the interplay with quiet interest and noting some more, spirited, discussions at other tables with quiet interest.  "I believe structuring it around powers is a method to both obscure and make more relatable the issue of such catalogues."  he pointed out with care, "Were one to pass statute of registration based on creed or other ephemeral tribalisms I think the answer becomes much more clear morally."  he let out a slow sigh and focused for a moment once more, "Taking the longer view were one to state those fo a certain faith were a risk because they held to the teachings and laws of a church before secular authority it is clear such would be immoral."  Laying his hands flat on the table he let out a slow breath "Or those considered culturally backwards and violent by the prevailing powers."  that was a delicate issue for one of his his national identity and fraught. 

 

Trying to move past the dark implications of his previous statement he focused laser line on the question as asked, "The question is how one reacts to an unjust law really, and for that the only moral choice is to use what power and sway you have to see it undone."  he nodded having reiterated his point.

 

He flashed a winning smile to Veronic at her question and replied eagerly, "I am in fact counting on it."  He looked then down at the handout and the next question as judy tried to move her own group on to less contentious ground, though given the subject matter that seemed unlikely.  "Are we ready to move on to the question of identity exposure and how one might address such a threat?"

 

 

[TheAbsurdist]

(Group 3)

 

This was a catch up for her, a topic she hadn't had this class last year, but then she was normally in a state of academic catch up. Fortunately for all those involved in was Corinne who was here, she was scribbling away furious her notes, trying to elaborate on a point.  But, honestly, she didn't know.  She knew she didn't know, not really, so it was an emotional response more than anything else.

"Like, I don't know."  So she just laid that out.  "You have to have a license for driving a car.  I just... I hate abstract, things don't happen in a vacuum.  But some of us are dangerous, with our powers, or whatever... We can hurt people without meaning to.  I mean control is all cool and stuff, but if you can throw a bus without effort, what happens when you lose your temper?  Slamming the door means might have just caused structural damage... or worse."

 

Her brows knitted together as she looked at Monica, the fear of her own abilities written large on her features, it was why she was hear.  They objectively terrified her.

[Zeitgeist Blue]

Group 3

 

"One should understand that the government, ideally, should be to enforce the common good without trampling the rights of the minority," Nicole says across the circle from Corrine. "There is a whole history between superheroes and the government, precedent, sure, and we've entrusted that these rights that are under attack be protected. If we let this act to pass well," she waved her hand lazily in the air then rested it on the piece of paper with the question. "This isn't just about registration, because identities themselves have no power. This is control and how much power someone can have over your life."

 

"So yeah, agree with Monica."

 

She waited for Corrine to finish then began her own reply with a shrug. "Everyone has the capacity to kill and cause damage, but just because one has a greater capacity is justification enough for her to be singled out and unjustly monitored by the government? There are reasons why most individuals keep identities secret and registering those is like giving the government a loaded gun to point at your head."

 

 

Edited September 30, 2018 by Zeitgeist Blue

[KnightDisciple]

Group 2

 

Micah sat back at that question, his left hand flexing a few times as he mulled the concept over. His furrowed brow and thinned lips showed that, while he wasn't in true distress, this was not a comfortable subject.

 

"I know what we're probably supposed to say. Something along the lines of 'that's the risk we take', or maybe 'just put him in solitary'. But...a hero uses a secret identity not just to protect themselves, but their families. There are people who cannot defend themselves against supervillains put at immediate risk in this situation. I mean, I'd hate to see anyone at this school that isn't, I dunno, the Headmistress take on a big-time supervillain. Imagine your grandmother dealing with that!"

 

He closed his eyes.

 

"I think that..if there's some way to block that knowledge, or wipe it, maybe that's the best way. I know what some part of me that I don't listen to says to do in this scenario, but...I don't think that's the way."

[alderwitch]

Group 1

 

When Ashley scowled, Janus gave the other 'teen' a dazzling smile, as sharp as their blade and probably equally as deadly. It was certainly just as unfriendly as Ashley's scowl was and that was painfully clear to anyone. "...Come up with another set of ridiculous names and elaborate costumes to hide behind?" Janus drawled their suggestion, leaning back in their chair; the pen whirling from finger to finger before tapping it on the desk. "...or, I suppose, recognize the inevitable failure that trusting safety to a scrap of fabric and the vague hope that those you anger won't peg you from perhaps a hundred different tells when you're not wearing a cape and spandex. Or, you know, a jacket and a scowl, for example."

[Thunder King]

Adam, Group 1

 

"That's the problem, though, I think. What happens if the information gets into the wrong hands? What even qualifies as the wrong hands? I hand over my identity, and the government decides they want me on the front lines. I wake up to find my parents held hostage. I'm no less vulnerable in my sleep than I am wide awake, but my parents? What about the heroes who only have powers sometimes, or none at all? It's one thing to face down villains in person, quite another to find them in your bedroom with your family well in hand."

 

"Secret identities are not perfect, by any means, but what's the alternative at this stage? It's a big question." 

 

Adam leaned back, thinking. It was obvious, in part, that he was playing the Devil's advocate. He liked discussions like this. 

 

"If a supervillain found out my secret identity, well, I'm no more vulnerable asleep than awake. Allies, though, I'm not sure. The only thing I can think to do is to capture the villain and find a way to destroy the evidence. There's no protection against that sort of thing. All you can do is hope they don't find anything out." 

 

Hypothetical discussions on philosophy were one thing, but he had nothing to contribute to this question. he had no real practical understanding of superheroing. Nothing he could fall back on or rely on for experience. All he knew was that all of his 'identity' paperwork was fabricated whole cloth some years ago, and that he was basically immune to many weapons.

Edited September 29, 2018 by Thunder King
post unity

[Avenger Assembled]

Group 1

 

A triumphant smirk didn't fit the character at all - so with regret, Ashley simply glared at Janus like the slow-witted teen anarchist she was supposed to be. 

 

"That is a problem with secret identities," agreed Judy. "But there are people whose lives would be ruined if other people knew what they were." She tapped her pen on the pad before her, then said, "What if you did a change to the law, where violating someone's secret identity was illegal? Then you could tell that guy he'd be going away for even longer if he started revealing secrets." Her brow furrowing, she added, "But then you'd have people just making up secret identities whenever they wanted to do something, so that can't be right." 

 

"Combine it with the first one," Ashley suggested, looking away from Janus and back to Judy. "Make the supers work for the government, so anyone who outs them goes away for a long time. Course anybody who did that would _deserve_ to have their secret ID outed..." 

[alderwitch]

"Ah,  yes, conscription! The bastion of a truly just government." Janus retorted, their spinning pen coming down with a solid thwack on their pad of paper. "Blackmailers escalate. Short of murder - which hopefully even grim and gritty over here isn't going to advocate - you can't control information once its out. Your best bet is to control that information getting out. Put them in prison, hold a press conference and unmask yourself to a sympathetic public. Take steps at that point to protect your family; call on the Freedom League or the rest of the various philanthropists in the super hero community to put them under protection."

 

And there... there you could see the Danger half of Janus' family traits; the super heroing family who had taken PR to an entirely different level. "You put your family in the public eye - SO in the public eye that moving against them is an affront to everything that good and decent people stand for." Janus flung themselves back in their chair then, adding, "And you copyright the hell out of everything to sell lunchboxes to pay for it all."

[April]

Group 2

 

Abigail considered the hypothetical public exposure of her identity, her real identity, a little too closely and suffered a mild panic attack.  Her outward expression didn't change much, a small tightening of expression and shallow breath that returned to normal, but for a brief moment--no more than a heartbeat--a crown of three flames flickered over her head before vanishing.

 

"Run, hide, change." she said, "There are places one can go that nobody can find you.  Where you can be lost again."

[Ari]

(Group 1)

 

Leroy frowned "We still...never mind."

 

Shrugging aside that subject and focusing on the new one, the tattooed boy went on "That would work for you or I, Sri Danger, but the likes of the Smiths or Mr. Lanchester have no such option. It would simply put them more at risk. No, I say our only chance is to find them, then go and politely give them a counteroffer that exceeds what they could hope to obtain from other, less scrupulous clients."

 

"Of course the more pressing matter is: why do this? Unpardonable of us not to consider possible motives beyond mere blackmail. There is no demand after all, only threat. Just because they are doing something criminal does not mean they cease to be human. Are they afraid of us? Do they know something about a student we do not? Are they angling for a 'soft' crime that will still land them in prison for their own protection?"

 

Shifting in his seat, Leroy frowned at his long, straight toes. "These questions have frustratingly little to go by. Ms. Smith," he turned his golden eyes to Judy, "you are a native of this world, I only know of Captain Thunder and Dr. Stratos as examples of a superbeing unwillingly being rexposed, what others are there?"

 

As he spoke, he looked to the others, as if extending the question to them as well.

Edited September 29, 2018 by Ari

[Avenger Assembled]

"That's a stupid assumption," Ashley growled at Leroy quietly. "Where we're from, assuming you know everything about someone by looking at them can get you killed." 

 

"Ashley, honey, it's all right, he didn't know any better," said Judy soothingly, reaching over to pat her sister's gloved hand - well, if you counted gloves with no fingers on them as gloved. "Ah don't know anything about superheroes from here, Leroy," she said with a beauty queen's studied politeness, "but Ah know people who've had their whole lives ruined because their secrets were exposed. Even you should know just being outed for having powers can hurt you; much less for being a full-on, um, superhero. People can die of it. Or wish they had" 

[Heritage]

Group 2

 

Lulu was more than happy to move on to the second question, because they could probably bat that one around all without agreeing on anything. However, the second question might also prove to be divisive.

 

"Ah'll be honest with y'all, ah'm sort of with Micah on this one, though ah think it would be better if you could be more selective. Wipin' out someone's whole brain seems a but much." Then she stroked her lower lip thoughtfully. "But what if that ain't an option, for whatever reason? Then what do you do?"

 

She sat there thinking for several moments before speaking again.

 

"Ah think for me personally, I'd go public, take that power away from 'em. And then yeah, try to put the people ah care about in protective custody or somethin'. Because my thinkin' is, once the cat is out of the bag, it's stays out; if one nutjob found out your secret, then another nutjob can do it again. Your cover is as good as blown."

Edited October 1, 2018 by Heritage

[Ari]

(Group 1)

 

"It is such a peril?" From the look on Leroy's face is was obvious that idea had never even occurred to him. "But why? They depend on you for their protection, far more than they do the police or the armed forces. If they work with other powered criminals to attack you, they have no replacement for your service. Alien armadas, demons from the Pit, none of the powered gangs have any answers to that. None of the men who overpowered the Centurion dared face Omega and none of the more powerful ringleaders showed their face during the most recent Invasion. What is their plan? Has it simply never dawned on any of them that this is foolish and self-destructive, undermining everything they need?"

 

 Folding his long legs under himself, the boy frowned deeply as he considered all this.

 

"If that is the case, then I have not the least idea how to respond. There does not seem any real answer, given all that can happen regardless of us moving to suppress the information. No memory is truly lost and the dead will rise. Revealing ourselves, again, would only work for all if we all had kingly resources at our disposal."

 

He drummed his fingers on the sides of the chair, lost in thought.

 

"What if I sent them to my home? It is a true paradise, they would want for nothing and never dream of harming another ever again. My sister Ola swears their rehabilitation rate is 100%."

Edited September 30, 2018 by Ari

[Thevshi]

Group 2

Veronica

 

Veronica listed to her fellow students speak about the second question as she thought about the question.  "Well, one option would be to arrange to have the particular criminal incarcerated in a way he cannot interact with any other prisoners, then he cannot share what he had learned.  Of course, that is only a temporary solution, at some point there will be an opportunity for him to share the information."

 

"As for altering memories, while a rather drastic decision, it is at least preferable to the other more permanent solution."

 

When Abby seemed to freeze for a moment, Veronica saw something flare into being over the other teen's head that made her frown slightly, her eyes narrowing as if she was questioning whether she had actually seen what she thought she had.  "Running from situation might work, but again, only for a time.  Eventually it will catch up with you."

 

The teen gave a shrug as Lulu spoke up about going public ahead of any revel.  "Well, I certainly would recommend such a course of action, but then my family has operated publicly for over a century.  So, I am probably somewhat biased.  I can still understand that such a choice would not be for everyone.  Still, given the potential options available, I would vote for going public."

[KnightDisciple]

"Your family is stupid-rich and everyone loves them. Even if you weren't 'Super-Adventures: The Family Edition', you'd probably still be a bunch of rich, famous people who live in a big, beautiful house."

 

Micah's eyes had snapped to Veronica, and his voice had a sharp edge to it that likely shocked everyone there. His nostrils flared for a moment as he took a couple of deep breaths.

 

"It's easy for someone who's never had to scrape by on half-stale bread to talk about 'just' going public, when they're not half a country away from their thoroughly non-powered family. Some of us don't have powers that protect us all the time, the money to substitute for powers, or the resources to do the same. And we haven't seen evidence the government actually gives much of a s...a care...about us. So when we're facing down an option that sounds like it virtually guarantees people we love are going to die..."

 

He suddenly slumped, his eyes closing and a hand running over his face.

 

"I'm sorry. That was probably out of turn. You haven't said anything that deserved that, and I apologize."

[angrydurf]

Kam was intrigued to hear the admitedded mentalists take on the idea of mental manipulation for the purpose of preserving such secrecy after Micah initially suggested it.  His gaze softened at the very real panic and flicker of light over Abbeys head at the suggestion and was about to reply when Veronica deftly stepped in with the voice of a certain degree of experience.  The other boy at the tables response was however a surprise and rather more heated than he had expected.

 

He was glad that Micah managed to calm himself though he cleared his throat softly to lightly correct, "Well if the histories are to be believed the Patriarch of the Danger family was penniless when he began his explorations of the continent."  he shrugged slightly, "though I admit it is difficult to ascertain how much of the american zeitgeist seized upon the tale and how much the story itself was molded to best fit the myth of hte self made man."  He smiled lightly and with a friendly nod to both Veronica and Micah, "The truth likely lands somewhere in the middle."

 

He paused as he pondered the question himself.  Dakana had at times taken, extreme, actions to protect it's own secrecy.  These were not actions any longer celebrated since his grandfather and father's reforms.  While revelation of is own identity or that of his sister held little enough risk for themselves or their family it did increase the risk to those tasked with protecting them.  "I think even if you are able to control the release of hte information and have the resources to protect your lvoedones."  he began with care acknowledging such was oft not the case, "Someone is put at risk by the threat of super powered retaliation from the enemies of justice."  he let out a slow sigh acknowledging Abbey once more, "A new identity is not out of the question, though eventually it will happen again."  he frowned slightly, "Removing the knowledge from the individuals mind is some protection but altering the parameters slightly to a dead man's switch?"  he questioned curiously, "If there was risk no matter what is what I'm suggesting."  he clarified and nodded, "There are ways to discredit such information, to ensure such a claim is seen as so absurd it would be impossible to treat it asn ought but the ravigns of a lunatic."  he nodded finally with a small shrug and at substantially less cost than a full security detail for ones family.

[Thevshi]

Group 2

Veronica

 

Micah's response had caught Veronica quite off guard, so Kam was able to speak up first, interjecting after Micah had calmed down and apologized.  The teenage Danger was grateful for Kam's comments, as it gave her a moment to more carefully process Micah’s points, which even if made rather forcefully, still had merit.

 

When Kam finished Veronica gave the secret Dakanan royalty a small smile of things before she spoke up again.  "Well, regardless of just how self-made great-grandfather was, the fact still exists that his exploits provided the family with considerable wealth, and those of us in the generations since have been beneficiaries of that."  She replied, focusing back on Micah.

 

"Apology accepted Micah, and you are right, I do come from a very different circumstances than many other powered individuals.  I apologize if it seemed that I was suggesting that it would be an easy choice for anyone to do as my family has done in terms of being public about our identities."

[Heritage]

Group 2

 

There was a lot going on under the surface of these discussions; the nosy telepath in Lulu desperately wanted to take a peek inside Micah's head and see what buried trauma led to his outburst, but she knew if she wanted anyone here to trust her, she'd need to respect their privacy. Just one little peek...?

 

"You know what the one thing these questions keep leavin' out? Other super folks. The questions are always written like, we're in some kind a vacuum, but we're not; we're not alone." She indicated Micah with a wave of her hand. "If Micah's got some crazy sumbitch threatenin' him or his family, he can come to us for help. And we'll help him out, 'cause it's right, and 'cause we know he'd do the same for us. We're not just here to learn how to use our own powers; we're here to learn how to work together."

 

The young redhead leaned back in her chair and made a dismissive gesture. "Ah dunno, least that's how ah see it."

Edited September 30, 2018 by Heritage

[Azuth65]

(Group 2)

"I admit, I'm somewhat curious what kind of diplomatic headaches going public would cause for my father at the South Korean consulate in San Juan.  Probably between 'a few' and 'all of the problems'," Selena said, "But honestly, I would rather not go public.  Imagine how many weather controllers would get death threats after each and every hurricane.  And that's for something that could cause havoc with the global weather patterns, never mind for things like when we don't get to a car accident in time or aren't able to save someone during an interdimensional invasion."  Her last words were spoken in a way to leave no doubt they were not hypothetical.

[Thunder King]

Adam, Group 1

 

Adam's head slumped slightly. They were all valid points, he saw. He was glad that he was spending this time with people who could think and reason for themselves. He agreed with Leroy, though, it was impossible to predict the situation, and there was no clear answer. He supposed that was the point. The world has very few clear answers, and superheroes live complex lives. 

 

"As much as it sucks, Leroy, some people simply do not do anything in their own best interest. They pursue their goals with a single-minded aggression, never considering the consequences. We would all be dead if any of the Centurion's foes had managed to kill him before the Terminus invasion years ago. None of them considered what would happen if they removed their own greatest protector from the board, only that he was a thorn in their side and a wrench in their machinations." 

 

"Some gifted people try to use their gifts to help others, while some only use them to help themselves. I imagine there are others who keep their gifts secret and their heads down. I too don't think there's a satisfactory answer, because the answer is different for everyone, and we can't predict the actions of a disease or cruel mind." 

[Avenger Assembled]

Judy looked miserable. What she wanted to do was scream at Leroy that he didn't know anything about the real world; that not everybody with powers was the damn Centurion, and just because you had powers didn't mean everything was going to be great. But Cahill girls didn't scream and they didn't curse either, so instead she swallowed and tangled her fingers in her hair nervously. "Ah...ah don't know what to do about it either. Just tell him to publish what he wants, Ah guess, nobody's gonna listen to scum like him." She took a few deep breaths, then swallowed hard and passed the sheet over to her sister.

 

Ashley blinked, looked surprised, then nodded. "...all right, last one. A super-friend comes to you and makes a confession - he's actually a Grue who came to Earth as a spy but decided he liked humans better. Well that's easy." Ashley smiled thinly, her eyes visibly lighting up at the question. "Maybe you don't put him down," she said with the air of one making a great concession to the morals of her listeners, "but you sure as hell put him away, amirite?" 

[olopi]

Group 3

“Wanting to drive a car’s a conscious choice, you don’t just end up owning a car without wanting to in most cases probably. Same with guns I guess, but actually …”

 

She suddenly stopped talking, as if she’d stumbled over her own thoughts. “I see your point for regulating it in some way, people’s powers are way more dangerous than some guy with a gun. But there’s some of us who didn’t even want these powers in the first place.”

 

“I’m not sure how the registering would help anybody though, unless AEGIS or somebody start tracking people to track their power use. Just registering a person’s identity won’t do them much good, …”At this point the sound of her voice changed, she wasn’t determined so much as defeated, her tone closer to how she usually sounded when people approached her.  “…and that’s assuming they keep it confidential, ‘cause making it public knowledge’s a whole other can of worms.”

 

Without any real pause, she continued onward, with some urgency, speaking faster and in a higher pitch than usual.   “Tracking people who had no choice or influence over what they’re being tracked for is straight up evil.  If there was some way to regulate power use without it involving the removal of people’s rights, I think the entire question changes, but as it stands you’d essentially remove the liberty of a few people to give everybody else the illusion of increased safety.”

 

She stopped for a moment, considering how to proceed from here.

 

“And once they track you for political purposes, who knows what happens the next time there’s a large scale attack? Our government doesn’t exactly have a good track record with these things. “

[TheAbsurdist]

It was then that Corinne became animated as she leaned up then, her hands on the table as she looked at Monica. "They already do!  Jesus, everyone is tracked!  I am not a tech wizard, but there is CC TV, there are radio chips in ID cards, there is the internet, GPS in your car, in your phone that you always have on you, .  And even better we pay people for the privilege of it.  You have a car?  You have a license and be tracked.  A normal person with a gun?  It'll be registered.  If AEGIS wants, right now, it can tracked.  NSA too.  This registration this'd be a PR stunt for whoever's in office.  Like, why shouldn't a government want to watch us?  Those of you that decide to do the whole hero thing are just weirdos in funny suits wandering around with not training except for either another crazy person, who is your dad, or something, or other crazy person who runs a school filled with more crazy people!"

She stopped, and breathed hard, as she looked at the other girl.  "Like, no one even knows what liberty means.  You'll get a dozen different answers from twelve people.  So don't rely on something fuzzy.  You're all going to go out there, and try to 'save' people, everyone else should just trust you?  Why? Because you glow?  At least a police officer takes an oath.  What do a bunch of teenagers, filled with hormones do?  Look good in spandex?  This isn't a coin flip!  This isn't some clear choice, some of us are weapons without wanting to be.  Some of us are dangerous to those we love.  Some don't even get the chance to 'learn' how to 'control it' before everything goes wrong.  Why should we have faith those people to do right?  When they're scared, they're confused."  And she flopped back into her seat in a dramatic bit of display, but this topic cut, she had hoped to not deal with it, even as her eyes started to bleed out out brilliant light.

"Why should I trust someone in a cape more than a politican in a suit?  They're both people, right?  They're both as fallible and selfish.  Maybe I haven't been punched in the head enough think that the kool-aid is is such a thirst quencher."  Her arms folded, across her chest as she slouched further in her seat, letting her eyes close.

[alderwitch]

"You don't murder anyone, regardless of what they might look like on the outside," Janus replied, their tone sharp and their gaze narrowed with acute dislike on Ashley, "And no, I would not put away someone for the 'crime' of being born a Grue. People are defined by the choices they make, in the end. They have done nothing wrong and merely wish a different path than one proscribed by birth and nature. That is a noble choice."

 

Janus picked up their pen finally, jotting down their answers with the beautiful penmanship of one who had not grown up with any option other than a quill for communication. "...What is wrong with you? Do you just want people to not like you?" Janus finally wanted to know from Ashley, unable to come up with any other reason the other 'teen' might be baiting them. "That seems an extraordinarily lonely path. You have to let other people in eventually, you know. It certainly doesn't make it easier for you or your sister to make friends. We're not your enemies here."