ic And Carnal Forbearance (IC)

[angrydurf]

Kam looked with some discomfort at the tense conversation happening at some of the other tables and turned back to his own group thankful to be among more level headed debaters.  "Good points as well."  he agreed with the mingled thoughts tossed out as he tried to collate them into a more unified philosophy.  "It seems that this relies very much on the specifics of the situation."  he noted with a nod to Lulu in particular, "If among your allies you have the means to either hide or remove the information, discredit it, or safely go public any one of those options might be the best choice."  he looked to Micah and Selena as well to add, "As you both mentioned however such options vary on the individual and I would think the villain in question."  he suggested and flashed a warm smile to Veronica and Abby, "And one may already have a public persona or reason beyond threats to family and friends to avoid revelation."

 

He shrugged feeling they had fairly completely examined the thread and determined that in fact none of them harbored murderous intent.  Not that really it was a good question but a damn site better than the ridiculous trolly problem.  "Hmm next."  he looked down at the list, "Grue turncoat and..."  he raised a brow, "There have been numerous Grue who have turned on the Unity, Psudo, an entire faction of them during the incursion if reports are accurate."  he shook his head.  "Are these questions from an older text? or?"  he seemed genuinely lost as to why an assumption was made that people would automatically distrust a Grue.

[Zeitgeist Blue]

"Monica, Corinne... relax, seriously," Nicole said, hesitated in the face of the light coruscating around but slid her palm across the table anyway, her fingers splayed out as if reaching for something. Volatile. No one wanted Zenith right now and no one wanted Liberty flying all over the table. "Please?"

 

After a few seconds of waiting, Nicole retracted her hand from the table then folded her arms across her chest though she was visibly fidgeting. She faced Monica with a pout on her face. "She's right, you know. The government can do all of that and more. Hell, anyone schmuck with the hardware and skills can do all of that and more. I've done that in my sleep. And that's me keeping secrets. Making their identities public is way more... messed... up."

 

Nicole stopped in her tracks, her eyes widening as she looked at Monica, their first meeting on the fourth floor of the Rita-Kord dorm coming to the forefront of her mind and how she had pushed Monica's buttons the wrong way. Her voice was soft, awkward and hesitant, as she said. "I'm sorry. That must have been really horrible for you."

 

She unfolded her arms and began to gesticulate as she turned to Corinne. "Maybe this is why there's a whole world's difference between us and them, the politicians and police. They're authorities, people who we're supposed to trust and put our lives in their hands. We who choose to volunteer are just civilians and any superpowered individual who goes out of line becomes a criminal like any shooter with a gun."

 

She paused, her eyes closed and sighed. Paused to cool down.

 

"You have the police shooting who they're supposed to protect," she continued. "You have politicians embezzling public funds or flaunting human rights and so you have a problem considering they're the public servants. That's a complete one-eighty to what we entrusted them to do."

 

"But us?" She waved a hand around the table. "We aren't forced into some big responsibility because of our powers. No one's forcing you to fight crime or whatever instead of pursuing dance in Claremont. No one's forcing Monica to become the next Lady Liberty . Superheroes don't have authority. Most don't get paid yet we already register our alter-egos with the government if we volunteer. I'm doing and taking this from my free time and so why does the government get to decide that's something to be viewed with even more suspicion?"

Edited October 1, 2018 by Zeitgeist Blue

[Avenger Assembled]

Ashley held her breath, giving Janus her most peevish teenage glare. She'd bet the pot when she'd seen Judy crumble away from the first conversation she'd been enjoying for weeks; was she going to clean up? She had her answer a moment later when Judy sighed and said, "...She's right, Ashley. You can't judge somebody based on where they're from. Maybe you shouldn't trust them as much anymore and you surely should ask them some questions about who they really are and what they really want, but you can't just reject somebody because of how they were born. You're the one who said we're all God's creatures." 

 

Good girl! And then, because Watchdog's saving grace was her love for her sister, Ashley reached over and took her sister's hand. "...all right. All right, fine. But you don't just trust a Grue because you happen to know some nice ones. If nine out of ten are your enemy," she said, looking over at the others, "don't decide this one has to be your friend because they give you the puppydog eyes and a sob story." 

[olopi]

As soon as Corinne leaned up, Monica pushed herself back into her seat. Sure, she’d expected some sort of reaction, but nothing like this. She looked visibly uncomfortable, raised up her shoulders and held her hands in front of her chest. At this point, Monica just wanted to be back in her room where she didn’t have to deal with people. She focused her attention on the question sheet, trying to at least hide her expression somewhat.

 

At least Nicole continued on so Monica didn’t have to say anything. She felt as if she had a lump in her throat, at this point she couldn’t really formulate a proper response. Once Nicole was done speaking Monica adjusted her position in the chair, then, without looking up, spoke.

 

“Wanna go to the next question?”

[Ari]

(Group 1)

 

Leroy had sunk into silence, eyes closed and head hanging. Without warning he swung up and declared "This is no time for high emotion! Calm! Serene."

 

He blinked. "I beg your pardons, that was meant for my dragon."

 

Leroy began rearranging himself on the chair, arms and legs unfolding and refolding as he went on briskly "Anyway! Smith has the right of it, I would say. Dio was just explaining what a 'Grue' is, apparently they have recently become extinct in my universe, and they sound a fearsome threat to this world. However! This case calls for a light hand!" With a thump he consolidated into a rough pillar, legs crossed and bent so his bare feet rested comfortably on his muscular thighs.

 

"This imaginary alien has given us every advantage. By claiming repentance they cannot refuse whatever security measures we deem fit without arousing suspicion and hostility. They might yet prove false, and may be guilty of murderous impersonation and thus require sharp justice, but there is reason to extend a hand  and risk a burn. A metamorph, from what I was informed minutes prior, would be a powerful ally and source of extensive information. Or else a testing bed for weapons against their kind."

 

The tall boy beamed with magnanimity, warm golden eyes twinkling "Besides, we must think to the future. If we simply dispatch every admitted spy, we poison the well against honest renegades".

 

"Ms. Smith," he added with a polite nod of the well-groomed head to Judy, "I would count it a pleasure to learn more of this faith you espouse, it sounds quite singular."

[alderwitch]

Janus' had only just been relaxing at what seemed like reasonableness from the sisters when Leroy began to suggest testing weapons on a sentient creature, "That is horrifying." Janus said, their aristocratic features twisting with distaste, "Treating an enemy like that makes you no better. You can't use a creature to test weapons against their kind. Well you CAN but you SHOULDN'T." 

 

Janus was very firm. Their gaze slanted to the last member of their group in the vague hope that Adam hadn't joined in on the train to crazy town, dark pink brows arching up in a blatant request for some back up. That Janus was starting to have some serious reservations about some of their classmates traveled across their features before it smoothed out to studiously blank politeness. "As to the local dominant faith, you can't go a few blocks without tripping over it." Janus said, their words enunciated and bland enough that it was clear that the teen Danger had experienced at least a few run-ins on social media with the less pleasant elements of it. "I'm sure you'll have no trouble finding it if you have a passing interest."

[KnightDisciple]

Group 2

 

Micah gave Kam a slightly relieved smile as the diplomatic teenager tried to steer the conversation to the next question. It's not that Micah didn't appreciate the real issues these questions raised, but between his own near-blowup, and the tension happening at other tables, he felt like they deserved a "softball". The Grue question seemed just such a thing.

 

"It's easy to say that in abstract, Kam, but...I wouldn't be trying to just lock this Grue up forever, but I'd feel a little betrayed. This isn't just someone not sharing all their life details, it's a pretty big revelation. If they were, say, a refugee Grue using an invented identity, I'd probably just go for a "trust but verify" approach. If they were using an invented identity, but part of an invasion plan, which is what this sounds like, I'd probably suggest short-term imprisonment, to verify things, verify their intentions."

 

He paused.

 

"If they took over someone's identity, there would be some harder questions, I think."

[TheAbsurdist]

She frowned a little bit, as she worked on slowing her breathing, focusing on stillness to relax, before she managed to croak out a, "Touchy subject. Sorry."  That was about as much elaboration as she'd be willing to give, they all looked down at her.  Or she felt it, that scrutiny.  She hated it here.  She hated Summers.  She hated the donor of a father she had for giving her this gift, and she hated her parents for sending her away. Breathe, breathe Conrad.  

 

Letting out a slow, steady breath, she picked up her own paper, and she started to read it, arching her brows, "What's a Grue?"  Despite her involvement she was an outsider in this world, she knew what was on the TV, probably.  Mostly she knew dance, how to keep a beat, and she could do some art, but... she felt like there was context she was missing.  Oh, of course they wont tell me anything, that would be easy - she let the thought die before it riled her up any more, and she dropped the paper back on the table, as she pushed herself up to her feet, rolling her shoulders, before she moved her chair out of the way so she had some space, and then she slowly slide down into a split, tall enough her head was over the table.  She twisting a little bit, and looked up at them.  The fidgeting helped her mood, it gave her something to focus on.  "Like... I don't know, aliens right?"

[Thevshi]

Veronica

 

"And don't forget Miss Grue!"  Veronica replied in with a small smile as Kam mentioned that there had been Grue that had turned from the Unity in the past.  She had to agree with Kam somewhat that the question seemed to be rather outdated.

 

When Micah spoke up next, the teenage Danger looked over to him.  "I agree one should be somewhat cautious about just accepting what this Grue is saying Micah, but there are other considerations to remember.  As I understand hearing at some family gatherings over the years, the Unity is something of a hive-mind collective, so this Grue may not have had much choice in anything he, or she, did until they were able to gain some level of independence. Assuming there is a way to truly determine what level of independence the Grue had while establishing their identity, then it is hardly fair to hold them accountable for something that occurred when they were not completely in control of their actions." 

[Azuth65]

"There really isn't a great way to respond to the admission from another super, teammate, friend or otherwise that they're actually a Grue, though I admit I'd have some trust issues going forward without some way to verify their story," Selena answered.  "I mean, if they broke the masquerade in the middle of fighting off an invading force of Grue, I'd certainly have an easier time buying the story.  But even then, it's easy to put off complex moral quandaries when you're fighting for your life."

Sitting back in her chair she rubbed her temples, "And like Veronica pointed out, this whole hive-mind thing does skirt a bunch of the personal responsibility arguments of what a Grue has or has not done.  Pretty sure there's also some amount of legal precedent for people who have been mind-jacked."

[Avenger Assembled]

Judy gave Leroy a considering look. Claremont students (and her powers) being what they were, she knew that not all questions along those lines were sincere. "Ah'd be happy to talk to you about that later, Leroy - maybe we can stop by your common room after dinner." Come to think of it, neither of the two girls had been seen eating in the cafeteria; one of the many odd things about the Smith sisters.

 

For her part, Ashley shot a quick look from Janus to Leroy; then offered, "He'll volunteer if he's smart. The Grue hunt traitors to their blood," she squeezed Judy's hand a little tighter at that, "he'll want to make sure his friends know how to find Grue, how to knock them out of their shape, and how to hold them if they're prisoners. If he is your friend, that is." And if the dragon prince there was talking about lethal force, now he's the jerk. 

[Thunder King]

GROUP 1

"If someone comes to you and confesses that they're a spy, they're putting themselves at risk. It seems like it would be a strange tactic to reveal yourself to your enemy to try and get secrets." Adam sighed. "There were times in history when people were treated with cruelty and violence just for being different."  He gazed down at his arms and remembered a certain novel. 

 

"With that said, it's important to keep an eye on people in that context. Not imprison them, just make sure they don't make any off-world contacts, and make sure someone isn't spying on them. Just because they're friendly, doesn't mean they're not being watched." 

[Ari]

(Group 1)

 

"Well said, Sri Danger!"

 

Leroy had sat in polite, attentive silence as he absorbed the reactions to what he'd said, and nodded emphatically at Adam's mention of past prejudices on Earth-Prime.

 

"Well said indeed. Yes, it was careless of me to forget what ''weapon" means here, implying aggression or something harmful. I was thinking of improved methods of detection, tools that disrupt shapeshifting, erecting fields that suppress their mind-thieving talents, not anything that inflicted injury or death. It would be reprehensible to so abuse someone, and I humbly beg your pardons for even seeming to entertain such an idea." 

 

He leaned back in his chair, hands folded in his lap and eyes lowered.

 

"Ms. Smith," he added, "does this exercise allow for groups asking their own questions, or are we only responding to the pre-selected ones?" 

Edited October 3, 2018 by Ari

[Zeitgeist Blue]

"Yeahhh," Nicole said, watching Corinne's little zen routine. On another side of the table, Monica looked just like a drenched puppy scolded for leaving muddy pawprints on the kitchen floor. Maybe it was best if they leaved the topic with how touchy the subject seemed to be. People would get upset and she might just start sniping.

 

"Yeah, basically an alien," Nicole began to explain, pushing up her glasses to see the two other girls better. "But imagine it was pretending to be a person you knew well but wasn't all along. When did the switch happen? What happened to the original person? Did you even know the person or were you talking to a Grue the whole time."

 

"This one's easier," she declared. "You've got to verify their story first, keep them in detention to make sure you aren't played like a fiddle. Then you take them in as an ally and figure out what happened to your real friend."

[TheAbsurdist]

"Could you not, please?  I appreciate the peacemaking, but you're audibly saying something that it is easy to take as sarcastic, Nicole." Her eye brows lifted and pressed together in an expressive manner, not mad just... something else.  Then she slowly leaned forward, to press her torso to her body to stretch herself as she remained in the splits.  Then she lifted her body back up, and then leaned back, stretching her arms overhead in position.

"Anyway, so Invasion of the Body Snatchers?  How likely is the person they replaced alive?  Do they kill them?  Eat them?  Like, that doesn't sound like something that is easy, or smart, to trust..."  She frowned a bit, before she put her hands on the air, and used it for leverage to push herself up so she could turn while keeping herself in the splits, so she could repeat the stretching against the other legs.

[April]

Group 2

 

Abigail listened to the others in her group talk, she caught snippets of conversation from the other clusters of students, and decided that she finished participating.  The situations described hit too close to home, just flip a noun or two, and she was growing increasingly uncomfortable with the subjects and the responses.

 

So she pushed herself back from the table slightly, fished a book out of her satchel, and started to read.  She couldn't leave the class but she could escape in her own way.

[olopi]

Monica looked at her sheet as Corinne read out the next question, seemingly dealing with something of her own. Now, with all of this happening Monica did kind of want to know just what Corinne’s deal actually was, but she knew pretty well that poking at it would create the exact sort of atmosphere she came, uh, got sent, to Claremont to escape.

 

Monica had come across the name a few times before while browsing around the internet, but she didn’t really know much on the subject beyond what Nicole explained. Once the others had stopped talking for now and Corinne was done with her little routine and showing off her great bo-

 

Monica stopped that train of thought before it led anywhere else and began to speak, taking over where Corinne had left off.  “I really don’t know? Like, granted, I don’t care much right now, but I don’t think any of us know enough about this sort of thing to make an informed decision.”

[Avenger Assembled]

Group 1 

 

Considering their situation, Ashley felt like the discussion had been a big success. She'd kept Judy open, making sure she didn't shut down despite some questions that had hit a little close to home, and she'd gotten a feel for Judy's fellow students, alternatively overly emotional, overly naive, or good-hearted-but-unsure. Good to know Claremont kids haven't changed too much in 10 years! She actually found herself regretting that she hadn't participated in this honestly; Ashley George's answers were quite different than those Watchdog had been forced to give. Registering metas is just good sense and it's probably gonna happen by the time Jaycee is my age, you have a telepath mindwipe the guy so he doesn't spill the beans, and you interrogate the Grue but let him join if he seems reliable enough and if there's no red in his ledger. "We still have time. What do you want to know, Leroy?" 

[Zeitgeist Blue]

"Yeah, alright. Fine," Nicole replied to Corinne and averted her gaze, rolling her eyes while Corinne was busy doing the splits. It seemed that neither Corinne nor Monica knew much about the Grue except that they invaded and were repelled after some time. Nicole took this as an opportunity for a small lecture. As her eyes roamed over the other groups, she continued like a professor imparting hard-won experience to freshmen, "I've heard that the Grue keep the people imprisoned. They need the original genetic source alive to continue using their powers or something like that and since it's much easier to keep all their resources in one or a few places, all you need is one Grue to pick its brain and be your counter-agent. It's a chance to save people and maybe it isn't easy but you at least know your general direction, right? Simple like that. Help your friends, kick some alien invader ass. And anyone who doesn't think so needs to get their head knocked back in place."

 

In any case, it was clear that her discussion groupmates had anything to add and so Nicole snatched the single piece of paper from the table and held it up to her nose. "Anyway, changing topic or what?" She asked, looking up from the paper. "The next one's about what to do when someone - a supervillain's threatening to spill the beans on you and your friend's secret identities."

[Ari]

(Group 1)

 

"It is a very simple question, really, but one I have not the means to answer for myself." Leroy cleared his throat, shifting uncomfortably in place, suddenly seeming to be acutely aware of the other, much quieter members of the little circle.

 

At last however he managed to rally his courage and ask, very simply "What if we are not who we think we are?"

 

"These questions rely very much on initiative. Being outside, so to speak. As being the primary actor. But if it is found that one of us is some impostor, or at least not who we believed ourselves to be, what is our correct course of action? If you, Judy, were to find out I was something horrible, and did not know it, what would you expect of me?"

 

"I was thinking of what Sri Danger and Mr. Lanchester said, and my own careless words earlier. It would seem we demand a great deal of leeway from those we have power over, and none for them from us."

 

"As well, the obvious reply "Confess" strikes me as lacking. The Freedom League is justly famous for being honorable and generous, but to assume this will always be the case is foolish. Even my own mother, for all her power and insight, has...erred in judgement." Leroy's scarred and painted face grimaced, and the words dragged just a little at the last statement. 

 

"So, I suppose my question is better put in a sequence: what should we do, and where should we turn, if we make an unpleasant discovery of ourselves?"

Edited October 7, 2018 by Ari

[angrydurf]

(Group 2)

Kam nodded along with Micah and Veronicas discussion trying to put his own opinion of how outdated grue as bogeyman seemed.  "Well if we deconstruct the question there are a few elements to unpack."  he tried to mediate with some care not to stomp on the other arguments ongoing.  "There is the question of how long and under what circumstance your friend reveals themself."  he begins earnestly now that he has found a puzzle in the question to attack.  "If it is a recent event then they have in the very recent past done some form of harm to a companion making the remaining question moot."  he looked to his group to ensure no one disagreed too vigorously, "Clearly one who for personal reasons attacks a friend is suspect at the least, to even be a question then we must assume the grue has been embedded with your team for an extended period, perhaps as long as you have known them."  

 

Steepling his fingers thoughtfully as he pursued the logical conclusion of the question the young Dakanan continued, "In effect they in their guise are the friend you have known and trusted, if in this role they did not arouse suspicion nor compromise the team then they in good faith have been a companion?"  he paused once more to make sure all followed, "Leaving us with the species and the duplicity."  he looked to each to make sure there was no argument, "As we discussed in both prior questions for our own safety as well as that of our families we feel entitled to hide our identities, through means that would otherwise be unseemly,"  he added as mental manipulation and threats or imprisonment alike were hardly things one did without justification.  "So we accept duplicity on such grounds as valid leaving only the race as reason to be suspicious, which is hardly a fair metric."  he personally would not condone the wholesale dismissal of the possibility of just members of any sentient species.

 

Noting that she'd been quiet of late he took special care to inquire of Lulu, "Do you have thoughts as well?"  continuing to invite potential counter opinions of his carefully constructed path of logic.

[Avenger Assembled]

Judy blinked twice and said with great frankness as she made eye contact with Leroy, "Well, if there's something wrong with you, you need to try to fix it. If you can't, you turn to your friends. And if there's something wrong with your friend, you need to try to help them.That's what a hero would do, isn't it?" 

 

"What if we're a Grue?" asked Ashley, not seeming to quite get it. "Ugh. That's dark, Leroy." She settled back thoughtfully, counting off points on her fingers. "While going out in a blaze of glory sounds tempting, that's not actually going to solve any problems. I'd turn myself in and see what happens next. If I'm an alien invader I can't be trusted to make decisions for humanity anymore, even if I'm sure I'm one of the good ones." 

[Heritage]

"Sorry," Lulu said with an apologetic smile. "Ah was just thinkin' 'bout the things ah've done in my life that ain't exactly moral. Things ah did because... someone threatened me or someone ah loved. And how ah had to answer questions like this, in front of a court-appointed shrink while ah cried my eyes out."

 

She looked around the room, and indicated her fellow students with a nod. "Lot of hurt in here; sometimes ah feel the press of bad memories at night, pushin' into my head. Sometimes ah have to take pills to sleep."

 

Lulu took a deep breath and widened her eyes. "Ooh-ee, sorry 'bout that! Back to the questions! Uh, lesee, lock the Grue up, bring in a telepath to check his story, treat 'em with respect until you know otherwise." She drummed her hands on the table. "Next question!"

Edited October 9, 2018 by Heritage

[TheAbsurdist]

She blinked at that, "So, there isn't a guarantee that you ever befriended the real person?  Or, if you did that person is alive?  Like, if they are harvesting genetic material, why just turn the person into a smoothie, and all the creepy clowns from outer space can slurp it up to shapeshift?  Who comes up with these questions?  I mean, like, seriously..."  She rolls her eyes, "We're minors, so the first question would end up with our parent or guardian determining for us, 'cause we're not legal people, and the second... Jeeze, I guess I'd up stawberry-banana smoothie Corinne for the Alien hordes."

She made a face and shook her head, "Next question, I guess."  

[Ari]

(Group 1)

 

Visibly mulling it over, his eyes squinted in contemplation, Leroy regarded Ashley and Judy closely. Ashley's clear antipathy to the Grue had him on the verge of saying something, but whatever it was he left it alone. He inclined his head. 

 

"It would seem there are not many options. No additional questions, if the sheet is unfinished by all means let us resume."

 

Leaning back into his seat, Leroy drummed his fingers on the underside of the chair and smiled pleasantly at the other members of the group. "With any luck, we shall have some guiding goal or principle to follow besides mere logic when the time comes."