Side Effect Flaw... but no chance of failure?

[Ecalsneerg]

One idea I have for my PL 6 slot is an xenobiologist who uses his skills and some esoteric alien gadgetry to solve crimes. However, one of these gadgets would be a teleporter he salvaged. Unfortunately, he doesn't quite know how to repair it and using it damages him due to molecular instability.

Would this be a -2 flaw, because it always happens when he uses the power, or a -1 flaw, because there is no roll for him to fail on?

[Dr Archeville]

I'd be inclined to say -1.

[Tahotai]

?

Side effect seems structured so that you get -2 when you suffer the effect anytime you use the power, but if there's only a fifty/fifty (because you beat the roll) chance then it's -1

So if the character always takes damage when the teleport is used then it should be -2, same as any power would have a -2 if it always occurred when used.

[Heridfel]

Part of what the referees have to look at is how much a particular flaw affects a power. If there is no roll to defend against the damage, then the minimum result will occur: a single bruise. Since a teleporter typically would be used to enter or exit a scene, it's unlikely that he'll be using the Teleport frequently enough to warrant a -2 flaw. If he had to roll a Toughness save against the effect, and the rank of the effect was high enough that he could risk a more serious problem such as being stunned or staggered before he could teleport, then I would see it going up to a -2 flaw. He could also combine flaws, such as using the aforementioned auto-bruise along with Unreliable, giving him a 100% chance of a bruise and a 50% chance that he wouldn't actually teleport.

[Ecalsneerg]

I was thinking making it long-range only (i.e. no move action room-hopping) and a toughness save against the damage is possible. So, in that case, would a -1 flaw be appropriate?

I'm also aware that variable powers are judged on a case-by-case basis, so would this 'busted' teleporter be acceptable in a Gadgets power, or would you prefer it to be taken as a separate Device?

[Dr Archeville]

I was thinking making it long-range only (i.e. no move action room-hopping) and a toughness save against the damage is possible. So, in that case, would a -1 flaw be appropriate?

It would depend in part on what his Toughness save is. Is it high enough that he can almost always make the Damage save? If so, the Flaw isn't really worth a Flaw. (Like having the "Check Required" flaw, but having a skill modifier high enough that you can't fail the check approximately half the time.)

I'm also aware that variable powers are judged on a case-by-case basis, so would this 'busted' teleporter be acceptable in a Gadgets power, or would you prefer it to be taken as a separate Device?

If all the Gadgets are "esoteric alien gadgetry" that he can't quite get to work right, I (speaking solely for myself here) would say yes, if all the Gadgets were equally Flawed (all had Side Effect, or Unreliable, or so on). And, possibly, if the teleporter isn't a core part of the character (i.e., it's not something used at least once an adventure, it's not something the char would be greatly upset at losing); if it is something used very frequently, it's probably best to have it as a separate thing.

[Ecalsneerg]

It would depend in part on what his Toughness save is. Is it high enough that he can almost always make the Damage save? If so, the Flaw isn't really worth a Flaw. (Like having the "Check Required" flaw, but having a skill modifier high enough that you can't fail the check approximately half the time.)

Well, assuming the Long Range and -1 Side Effect [Damage], you can get a rank 10 Teleport for 5 pp, enough to get to the moon. As it's based off the Damage effect however, doing so would give you a DC 25 Toughness save, on a PL 6 character I don't plan to have meeting his caps unless it's in skills or 'inventions' (ok, if I weld this Lor blaster to a Grue computer chip, then this glowy green space rock as a power source...). It's molecular disruption, so only his Con modifer of +1 or +2 at best would apply to this save. Even a rank 7 Teleport into the next state is going to seriously hurt.

If all the Gadgets are "esoteric alien gadgetry" that he can't quite get to work right, I (speaking solely for myself here) would say yes, if all the Gadgets were equally Flawed (all had Side Effect, or Unreliable, or so on). And, possibly, if the teleporter isn't a core part of the character (i.e., it's not something used at least once an adventure, it's not something the char would be greatly upset at losing); if it is something used very frequently, it's probably best to have it as a separate thing.

Well, all the gadgets are either going to have Side Effects, Unreliable or Intelligence Check Required in order to operate them. The one exception I can see to this would be a simple scanner-type device of some sort. The teleporter really wouldn't be used often, for the reasons above. It's just too damn life-threatening that Hero Points need to be burned just to survive a jump.

[Dr Archeville]

Well, assuming the Long Range and -1 Side Effect [Damage], you can get a rank 10 Teleport for 5 pp, enough to get to the moon. As it's based off the Damage effect however, doing so would give you a DC 25 Toughness save, on a PL 6 character I don't plan to have meeting his caps unless it's in skills or 'inventions' (ok, if I weld this Lor blaster to a Grue computer chip, then this glowy green space rock as a power source...). It's molecular disruption, so only his Con modifer of +1 or +2 at best would apply to this save. Even a rank 7 Teleport into the next state is going to seriously hurt.

Not quite. The rank of the Side Effect isn't the same as the rank of the power, it's built on a number of points equal to the points of the power (without the Side Effect Flaw). So in that example, the Side Effect would be built on 10pp (since Long-Range Teleport 10 costs 10pp), enough for Blast 5, a DC 20 Toughness save (or Alt Save/Fort Blast 3, for a DC 13 Fort save).

[Ecalsneerg]

Wouldn't it be based off of Damage/Strike, rather than Blast, since it's not a ranged effect?

[Dr Archeville]

Wouldn't it be based off of Damage/Strike, rather than Blast, since it's not a ranged effect?

Well, that's tricky. Technically, it has a range of "Personal," since it always hit and hits you. But the example powers from the Flaw description were Blast, Drain, or the power itself.

Basically, the Side-Effect flaw needs some tweaking, and we're not entirely sure what that tweaking will be.

[Ecalsneerg]

Hmmm... well, if it's Blast then would it still count as a side effect flaw if I voluntarily forgo any toughness bonus beyond my Con score (i.e. not as a drawback or complication, just how the power works)?