Devices with APs

[Sandman XI]

Do they APs have to be other Devices? I have an idea for a minion that turns into Devices *cue Transformers theme* No really, here's how I plan to do it:

Device 1

AP: Minion

AP: Device

AP: Device

Et cetera, et cetera. Now what I really want to do (in about 4+ points) is:

Minion 6

AP: Device

AP: Device

AP: Device

So, are either of these possible?

[Dr Archeville]

I'd say no, for two important reasons:

1) Minions don't just "disappear" and "reappear," which is what would effectively be happening here. You'd need something like Summon Minion.

1a) Caveat to that is that, per current Board Rules, you cannot have Summon as an AP of anything.

2) You'd be having an Array (a Power and group of Alternate Powers) where some things are Devices, but some (the Minion) is not. I, for one, would not like seeing that at all; I've seen it before, and it never felt right to me.

What I would suggest is either

A) Get a Minion, give it ranks in Shapeshift (or the Alternate Form power and several Alternates). The Minion truly does become the devices you want; the powers it gains from Alternate Form/Shapeshift would all have the "Affects Others" extra. Problem here would be size and ease of loss: if all the devices are handheld things, then you just give the Minion permanent Shrinking (in addition to Shapeshift) or use the Shaepshift pool to give it Shrinking, and treat all the things it turns into as Easy to Lose devices (as far as disarming goes). If you want a mix where it can change size and some of the things it becomes are Easy to Lose (ex.: gun) and some are Hard to Lose (ex.: breastplate), then there's gonna be problems. You'd need to use some of the Shapeshift pool to cover the size changing, and possibly treat the Minion as grappling you for when it's a Hard to Lose device.

Optionally, you do a 'reverse minion' thing, where the char buys the Minion feat, but the Minion is the 'main' character and the PC is the 'minion' (this is how Johnny Thunder, a normal kid, & his Thunderbolt, a nigh-omnipotent genie-like critter, are often statted). The size problem would still need to be worked out, though.

[nareik123]

Another question on Devices and AP:

Can you Take a device, and have an AP: Device for the device?

[Dr Archeville]

You mean something like the following?

Device 10 (Iron Man's Red & Gold Armor; Hard to Lose, 50 points; PFs: 5 Alternate Powers) [45pp]

AP: Device 10 (Iron Man's Space Armor; Hard to Lose, 50 points)

AP: Device 10 (Iron Man's Stealth Armor; Hard to Lose, 50 points)

AP: Device 10 (Iron Man's Silver Centurion Armor; Hard to Lose, 50 points)

AP: Device 10 (Iron Man's Hydro-Armor; Hard to Lose, 50 points)

AP: Device 10 (Iron Man's Hulkbuster Armor; Hard to Lose, 50 points)

According to Steve Kenson, no. However, according to him you could do:

Device 10 (Iron Man's Multifunctional Armors; Hard to Lose, 50 points) [40pp]

Container 9 (45 points worth of effects in Red & Gold Armor; PFs: 5 Alternate Powers)

AP: Container 9 (45 points worth of effects in Space Armor)

AP: Container 9 (45 points worth of effects in Stealth Armor)

AP: Container 9 (45 points worth of effects in Silver Centurion Armor)

AP: Container 9 (45 points worth of effects in Hydro-Armor)

AP: Container 9 (45 points worth of effects in Hulkbuster Armor)

[nareik123]

Sorry, but I don't even know what a container is, I don't have access to UP.

[Sandman XI]

Yes, please do explain as I do believe this really throws a kink in The Quark Suit's plans.

[Dr Archeville]

Sorry, I keep forgetting that not everyone has ULTIMATE POWER!

A Container places a group of effects, modifiers, feats, and drawbacks sharing common descriptors together in a structure that can be modifier as a whole power by "outside" modifiers and feats affects the accessibility and use of the Container's traits.

A Container costs 5 points per rank and grants a pool of (rank x 5) power points you can use to acquire certain traits that are all part off a common "meta-trait" or overall power. An example of this is the Alternate Form power: a group of traits all connected by assuming a different form. While the form's effects may have their own individual modifiers, durations, and so forth, the Alternate Form has its own qualities. Activating the Container structure brings all of its power "on-line" at once and likewise deactivating the structure makes all of its powers "off-line" or inactive.

Device itself is also a Container, with a Flaw depending on how hard or easy it is to remove the Container/powers from the user: a -1 flaw if the Container is hard to lose (can only be removed if the character is helpless), or a -2 flaw if the Container can be removed with a successful disarm action.

In a way, you can look at the "Multifunctional Armors" build above as an array of Alternate Forms, like this:

Device 10 (Iron Man's Multifunctional Armors; Hard to Lose, 50 points) [40pp]

Alternate Form 9 (45 points worth of effects in Red & Gold Armor; PFs: 5 Alternate Powers)

AP: Alternate Form 9 (45 points worth of effects in Space Armor)

AP: Alternate Form 9 (45 points worth of effects in Stealth Armor)

AP: Alternate Form 9 (45 points worth of effects in Silver Centurion Armor)

AP: Alternate Form 9 (45 points worth of effects in Hydro-Armor)

AP: Alternate Form 9 (45 points worth of effects in Hulkbuster Armor)

[Warmonger]

I'm scratching my head over something similar.

See my char Magnus has Device Rank 8 with Alternate Form 11 as its power. I was able to afford this by dropping the action down twice to standard action. So he could afford 55pps but it only costs 35 (though that math is suspect)

So now I was thinking of altering him to be. Device 13 (52pps) And give him Alternate form 20 which is 100pps which is 35 pps over what the container can hold. But I was goign to flaw the action to changed form twice again to get it down 60pps. Then take 3 alternate forms. Is this ok?

[Dr Archeville]

No, because reducing the action required to activate a power like Alternate Form should be a Drawback, not a Flaw. Because it would in the vast majority of cases only ever come into effect at the very beginning of a combat, when you activate the Alternate Form.

Compare/contrast this with a more frequently-used power like Blast, where such an increase in Action would be a definite Flaw.