Getting Off the Ground

[Hellbound]

Okay... at some point in the near future it's likely that Hellbound will petition Doc Ark to build a flying motorcycle for him. That way he won't need to take a bus to all of his future fights. I haven't really thought through how that's going to come about, however.

Regardless...

Since I've not yet actually gotten a character construction aspect right with this game, I'm going to ask about making motorcycles fly. It SEEMS like a pretty strightforward procedure, but then that makes me nervous. Almost nothing in M&M is strightforward. At least not until after you've cross-referenced all of the addendum material, the errata and then checked with the folks at ATT first.

But going by the vehicle rules in the Core book, I'm under the impression that Flight would simply be an alternate power on the bike's existing movement trait. I think. At least that's what it says under the 'SPEED' paragraph on page 142.

So a motorcycle has a base Speed of 5. I'm going to assume that it means the bike has 5 ranks of the Speed power. I may be wrong on that... I'm not sure. If that's right then it means the bike can pick up 2.5 ranks of Flight or Super-Movement for the cost of a single AP.

Yeah? No? Sounds simple enough, but then that's where I get paranoid. 5 ranks of Speed would mean that a basic bike tops out at 250mph. That's... that's pretty frigging heavy, but what the hey.

Personally, I like Ghost Rider's concept of riding on his own flame trail. The bike sort of creates a burning road wherever it goes and runs on that -- pretty cool and better than a speeder on the forest moon of Endor. So that sounds like two ranks of Air Walking, actually, which would only cost 4pp normally and fit under an AP on the 5 ranks of Speed the bike already has. Nifty.

How is that pruchased? If it increases the movment cost of the bike by 1 'point', is that a power point or equipment point? The book's a bit vague on that part. 1 additional EP would make the bike cost 10 total and leave the PP cost at 2. Is that the way it actually works, though? Flying bikes cost the same as non-flying bikes? Or is that 'point' actually a full power point, meaning it's the same as 5 EP?

[Dr Archeville]

So a motorcycle has a base Speed of 5. I'm going to assume that it means the bike has 5 ranks of the Speed power. I may be wrong on that... I'm not sure. If that's right then it means the bike can pick up 2.5 ranks of Flight or Super-Movement for the cost of a single AP.

You are correct, it effectively has Speed 5.

Yeah? No? Sounds simple enough, but then that's where I get paranoid. 5 ranks of Speed would mean that a basic bike tops out at 250mph. That's... that's pretty frigging heavy, but what the hey.

Yes and No. Speed 5 means its top speed is above Speed 4 (100 mph), which is certainly reasonable for a motorcycle. (In other words, a person who can run 110 mph, a robot that can run 165 mph, and an alien that can run 235 mph all have Speed 5.)

Personally, I like Ghost Rider's concept of riding on his own flame trail. The bike sort of creates a burning road wherever it goes and runs on that -- pretty cool and better than a speeder on the forest moon of Endor. So that sounds like two ranks of Air Walking, actually, which would only cost 4pp normally and fit under an AP on the 5 ranks of Speed the bike already has. Nifty.

Air Walking would be the way to go, but not by having it as an AP of the Speed. Unless you want it to Air Walk at the same speed as a walking person (since, as an AP, you wouldn't be able to use the Speed at the same time).

How is that pruchased? If it increases the movment cost of the bike by 1 'point', is that a power point or equipment point? The book's a bit vague on that part. 1 additional EP would make the bike cost 10 total and leave the PP cost at 2. Is that the way it actually works, though? Flying bikes cost the same as non-flying bikes? Or is that 'point' actually a full power point, meaning it's the same as 5 EP?

It's not that vague, to me at least. Anything bought for equipment (like a vehicle) is bought with equipment points.

Yes, a flying bike (with Flight 2 as an AP of its Speed 5) costs the same amount of power points as a non-flying motorcycle. But the guy with the non-flying bike has an extra equipment point that the guy with the flying bike doesn't.

[Hellbound]

Air Walking would be the way to go, but not by having it as an AP of the Speed. Unless you want it to Air Walk at the same speed as a walking person (since, as an AP, you wouldn't be able to use the Speed at the same time).

Are you sure about that?

SPEED

A vehicle buys the appropriate movement power(s) for its movement speed, paying the normal cost. Vehicles with multiple modes of movement (air, ground, and water, for example) can pay full cost for one and acquire the others as Alternate Powers (see page 108).

That seems pretty clear-cut. A vehicle with multiple modes of movement can pay full cost for one and acquire the others as Alternate Powers. That's not the way it's actually done, though? Or is this because the bike has no actual movement trait (or at least none worth noting), and derives its mobility from whatever power had been purchased?

Huh. That would mean that it'd be better to buy Flight as an AP rather than anything out of the Super-Movements. Perhaps Flight with sufficient limitations to make it appoximate Air Walking... assuming that Flight itself has movement advantages that Air Walking doesnt.

I KNEW there was something sneaky that I wasn't seeing here. Ah... no, wait. Unlike most other games, vehicles aren't really treated as separate entities. All we're really doing is buying Hellbound extra powers through an equipment purchase. So anyone on a bike using Air Walking without that bike also employing the Speed power would be using the character's best ground speed.

So... let's say the bike did have both Air Walking and Speed purchased without using the alternate powers. What if a Speedster with 6 or more ranks in Speed got onto the bike. Would he then be able to Air Walk at his own best ground speed or would the Bike's Air Walking be applied only to the Bike's Speed ranks?

And you guys say this game isn't weird.

[Dr Archeville]

Are you sure about that?

That seems pretty clear-cut. A vehicle with multiple modes of movement can pay full cost for one and acquire the others as Alternate Powers. That's not the way it's actually done, though? Or is this because the bike has no actual movement trait (or at least none worth noting), and derives its mobility from whatever power had been purchased?

Air Walking isn't really a mode of movement, in that it doesn't have its own speed, it just modifies how you can use whatever speed you have. Having Air Walking as an AP of Speed means you can't use the Speed when using the Air-Walking, same as having Enhanced Str as an AP of Blast means you can't use the Enhanced Str when blasting.

Huh. That would mean that it'd be better to buy Flight as an AP rather than anything out of the Super-Movements. Perhaps Flight with sufficient limitations to make it appoximate Air Walking... assuming that Flight itself has movement advantages that Air Walking doesnt.

If you have Flight, you don't need Air-Walking. If you have Air-Walking, you don't need Flight.

I KNEW there was something sneaky that I wasn't seeing here. Ah... no, wait. Unlike most other games, vehicles aren't really treated as separate entities. All we're really doing is buying Hellbound extra powers through an equipment purchase. So anyone on a bike using Air Walking without that bike also employing the Speed power would be using the character's best ground speed.

So... let's say the bike did have both Air Walking and Speed purchased without using the alternate powers. What if a Speedster with 6 or more ranks in Speed got onto the bike. Would he then be able to Air Walk at his own best ground speed or would the Bike's Air Walking be applied only to the Bike's Speed ranks?

It modified the bike's speed. The Speed of the driver has no bearing on it; a car doesn't go faster when Quicksilver or Superman drives it. (It might go faster if Flash drives it, but that's because he's explicitly able to share his speed with others.)

And you guys say this game isn't weird.

Weird is a relative term.

Just go with an AP of Flight. It'll get you everything you want for your Flying Hell-Bike.

[Hellbound]

It modified the bike's speed. The Speed of the driver has no bearing on it...

That's what I was hoping for, but I've noticed that's not always the way it works. Though I can't give precise examples off the top of my head, it sometimes seems like the actual syntax of powers defies any real-world logic I'd apply.

a car doesn't go faster when Quicksilver or Superman drives it.

Which version of Superman? Because I'm pretty sure the one that came up with Super-Ventriloquism and could juggle planets would figure out a way.

It might go faster if Flash drives it, but that's because he's explicitly able to share his speed with others.

Well duh...

Just go with an AP of Flight. It'll get you everything you want for your Flying Hell-Bike.

Will do. So that's 2pp for a flying bike of 10ep. Hellbound already has 4pp to spend (dangit, never going to be able to afford Adaptation at this rate), so it'd just be a matter of getting the two chars together and justifying the engineering request.

Heheh... of course, if the Dr. wanted to look into Hellbound's genetic structure to try to figure out where he came from and how he got his powers (since Hellbound himself doesn't know), then he might be in for a couple of interesting surprises at the same time :)

[Dr Archeville]

Hellbound will definitely be in for surprises.

Has he already had a "Placement Test"?

[Hellbound]

Hellbound doesn't do well on 'tests'. But really it's just 'cause he doesn't study enough.

So, no, he has not done a placement test yet.

[Dr Archeville]

Muah hah hah :twisted:

[Hellbound]

Yeah, that's... that's never a good sign...

Set'er up! Let me know when the testing is to commence.

[Ecalsneerg]

Which version of Superman? Because I'm pretty sure the one that came up with Super-Ventriloquism and could juggle planets would figure out a way.

If you can juggle planets, why do you need to accelerate a car? Pick it up, it'd be like me grabbing a dust particle.

[Hellbound]

If you could juggle planets then why would you worry about hiding your secret identity from Perry White? Just give him five across the face if he throws you any lip about the cape and red booties

Sometimes these characters just do things because, well, because they can. It's best not to ask too many questions.

[Dr Archeville]

If you could juggle planets then why would you worry about hiding your secret identity from Perry White? Just give him five across the face if he throws you any lip about the cape and red booties

Sometimes these characters just do things because, well, because they can. It's best not to ask too many questions.

And some character don't do things because, while they certainly could, they won't.

As you say, it's usually unwise to look too hard at a world filled with jet-powered apes, time travel, and super-powered spandex-wearing megalomaniacs with volcano lairs and plans of world conquest. ;)