Water Control

[Lord Fell]

Working on my Water Controller, i was looking to add a "Create Water" power, so I always had plenty of Water to work with. However, Create Object (Water) seems a bit... broken.

Create Object allows you to create objects which have a certain amount of complexity/moving parts... such as a box with a hinged lid. Water would be entirely formless -I can summon it as a ball or a cube, but the Instant that it arrives it's going to conform to the shape of the container(s) in the area. This would seem to qualify for some sort of Flaw (the opposite of Precise, which allows even more complicated devices to be created).

Would the summoned water have natural, environmental effects? If I use it to fill a phone booth, the person inside is going to start suffocating. If I use it on a fire, it's going to Nullify fire.

What might be better...

If I'm using Elemental Control, would it be fair to assume that I can spontaneously create "enough" of the element I'm controlling, as long as I don't have any Flaw on the power that requires a source of materials?

For example...

Snare (whirlpool) costs the same as Snare (energy field x) so, I can always assume that the Control (here, Snare being an AP of same) includes the ability to create the material necessary for the effect?

How much water would Water Jet (Blast 10) create? I suppose that depends, a single drop of water moving at ridiculous speeds could punch a hole through a concrete wall. But, assuming an effect like a fire hose, what's a reasonable volume?

[Rei]

Would the summoned water have natural, environmental effects?

I’d say no if it grants you variable power stunts without paying a hero point. A for nullifying fire you achieve the same effect with a water blast anyway, just use that.

[N/A]

Working on my Water Controller, i was looking to add a "Create Water" power, so I always had plenty of Water to work with. However, Create Object (Water) seems a bit... broken.

Create Object allows you to create objects which have a certain amount of complexity/moving parts... such as a box with a hinged lid. Water would be entirely formless -I can summon it as a ball or a cube, but the Instant that it arrives it's going to conform to the shape of the container(s) in the area. This would seem to qualify for some sort of Flaw (the opposite of Precise, which allows even more complicated devices to be created).

Would the summoned water have natural, environmental effects? If I use it to fill a phone booth, the person inside is going to start suffocating. If I use it on a fire, it's going to Nullify fire.

What might be better...

If I'm using Elemental Control, would it be fair to assume that I can spontaneously create "enough" of the element I'm controlling, as long as I don't have any Flaw on the power that requires a source of materials?

For example...

Snare (whirlpool) costs the same as Snare (energy field x) so, I can always assume that the Control (here, Snare being an AP of same) includes the ability to create the material necessary for the effect?

How much water would Water Jet (Blast 10) create? I suppose that depends, a single drop of water moving at ridiculous speeds could punch a hole through a concrete wall. But, assuming an effect like a fire hose, what's a reasonable volume?

That's not entirely correct.

If you take Create Object as an AP for your Water Control, it works like any other Create Object effect. With your Descriptors, the sphere/cube/column/whatever you're making are just made out of "hard water." Mechanically, the effect is almost identical to any other Created Object, just with minor differences due to the Descriptors (stuff touching it gets wet, etc.).

Once you stop Sustaining the effect, the water loses it's solidity and collapses into "normal water," splashing on the ground. Of course, since you've got Water Control (Telekinesis, Limited: Water) as an AP, you could just switch over and move the water wherever you wanted. Or let it splash onto the ground. Your choice.

Using "Create Water" to put out a fire is a prime example of the Countering rules in effect: Since the Descriptors match, you'd roll a contested power check (D20 + power rank) against the source of the fire effect (again, D20 + power rank). If you win, you extinguish the flames, effectively Nullifying the "Fire" power. If we're talking about a mundane fire, rather than some other character's "Fire" powers, the GM would probably just handwave it to put out the fire automatically.

And yes, without an appropriate Power Loss Drawback or Limited Flaw, you essentially create the water for a Create Object or Snare AP out of thin air.

[Lord Fell]

I hadn't planned on taking it as a power that lets me make objects... the plan was that when I needed to get my combat on, I'd probably start by dropping a few thousand gallons of loose water on the general area, so that I'd have lots of "ammunition." However, it hadn't occurred to me that I could use APs of Control Water without necessarily having a source.

The character was originally built in GURPS, and had a liquid creation power, which I vaguely remember being necessary. However, I can skip that and add a create (hard water) object, which is a new power for the character.

[N/A]

I hadn't planned on taking it as a power that lets me make objects... the plan was that when I needed to get my combat on, I'd probably start by dropping a few thousand gallons of loose water on the general area, so that I'd have lots of "ammunition."

Create Object with "Water" as the Descriptor can do both.

However, it hadn't occurred to me that I could use APs of Control Water without necessarily having a source.

I'm glad I could provide you with a pleasant surprise then.

[Dr Archeville]

I'm not so sure that -- Create Object to create water which can then be manipulated by Water Control -- is viable.

Water Control is Move Object/Telekinesis (Extra: Range/Perception; Flaw: Limited to Water)

But taking some power(s) with "Only works in X", as well as a power that lets you create X, means the flaw will pretty much never come into effect. Like having Obscure (Visual), and some powers with "Only in Darkness" flaw.

Why not just take Move Object/Telekinesis (possibly with Range/Perception)? Move Object/Telekinesis is not Subtle by default, so it could easily be the creation of enough water to form hands to manipulate whatever you want.

[N/A]

True. That angle hadn't occurred to me. Un-flawed Telekinesis with "Giant Water Hands/Tentacles" as the Descriptor would make the most sense for a Water Control array with Create Object in it.

[Lord Fell]

Huhrm.

Gonna disagree with you there.

1) Create Object is a suggested AP for the Water Control power (in UP)

2) Move Object costs 2/rank. Water Control costs 2/rank. There is no point break for Flaw: Water Only.

To be honest, it hadn't occurred to me that I could make "huge water hands" to pick up other things with.

I did want to buy "affects any liquid" as an Extra though... mostly for "I move the oil-slick away from the duckies" kind of effects.

[Dr Archeville]

Huhrm.

Gonna disagree with you there.

1) Create Object is a suggested AP for the Water Control power (in UP)

Yes, for making items out of hard water, like when Aquaman creates a shield and sword. Not for creating water to then manipulate (which, being an AP, you couldn't do anyway).

2) Move Object costs 2/rank. Water Control costs 2/rank. There is no point break for Flaw: Water Only.

You're forgetting Range. Move Object/Telekinesis is Ranged, the assorted Elemental Controls are Perception.

[Lord Fell]

Aquaman does that? I think that's amazingly cheesy.

Any issues with the Extra (affects any liquid)?

... of course I could just buckle down, get writing and submit the character, then work out the issues.

[Dr Archeville]

He did in his first appearance in Batman: The Brace and the Bold.

If it's "affects any liquid," that's not an Extra (since that'd bring the cost on par with a regular Perception-range TK, which could affect anything). I'd go with Perception-Range TK, with a drawback that it can only affect liquids. Not sure what value I'd assign the drawback, though; not being able to affect solids is a hindrance, but you can use any liquids to indirectly manipulate solids.