quotemyname Posted July 15, 2009 Posted July 15, 2009 Is it possible to have a requirement for entering a possible alternate form? For instance: Breakdown has a Rock form. If I build another form for him that is based on a different more specialized form of Rock, can I do something like this? Give the new form either a flaw or a drawback - Must be in rock form to switch to this form. AND Must switch back to rock form before switching to any other form. to represent different types of music branching off from a more general genre. a graphical depiction of the end result may look something like: ..Metal---Rock---Alternative...... .............|........................ .Reggae---Ska---Punk............. .............|........................ ...R&B---Jazz---Latin.............. .............|....................... .Techno---Trance---Electronic.... ..............|....................... .....Rap---Dance---Pop............ Breakdown will only be able to switch forms by traveling along the paths designated by the lines and hyphens. As certain styles of music are more specialized / drastically different from other styles of music, I would like to explore the option of changing the tradeoffs in the more specialized forms. (part of the reason that I did not buy up to caps OUTSIDE of all of my musical forms was because I wanted to explore the possibility of changing trade offs to represent different styles of music)
quotemyname Posted July 16, 2009 Author Posted July 16, 2009 I shall elaborate, since I am incredibly bored. As usual some of this stuff is based on my perceptions about music. agree or disagree this is just how I see things. Tradeoffs (focus upon what is being traded FOR not AGAINST): [low = +1; medium = +2; high = +3] therefore low means low bonus, not negative modifier The center of the tree would have no tradeoffs. Tradeoffs will be extreme at the top and bottom of the tree. They will be moderate in the middle. -When I listen to metal, I can't help but think of the music itself being some sort of unstoppable force of destruction. (high DC, high TOU) -Alternative is a strange beast in and of itself. It is very transient. It sometimes doesn't have much substance (high DEF). Many times the point it is trying to get across is very subtle (high ATK) -Reggae is usually cool, relaxed, and peaceful. (medium ATK) yet it is also very steady. (medium TOU) -Punk can be offensive at times and is often used to make a protest. (medium DC) however punk is fickle as there are so many different kinds of it, one might say it is a hard genre to pin down (medium DEF) -R&B was inspired by many different things, but it has boldly forged ahead in new directions. (low DC) This genre has also had to survive many attacks against it by those who consider it to be an inferior style of music (low TOU) -Latin/ethnic music tends to be quite soft, but can also be powerfully inspiring at times. (low ATK) this ethnic genre has survived for centuries with little change. (low TOU) I think you get the point. I'll stop here. To provide a specific example for a new form I would like to prevent the form POWER METAL: Tradeoffs -3 ATK, +3 DC / -3 DEF, +3 TOU ":2zaod6wg] Density 6 [18pp] Enhanced Feats: - All Out Attack [1pp] Protection 6 Extras: Impervious; Drawback: Noticable [11pp] Speed 2 [2pp] Strike 2 (Blade extending from right forearm) PF: Mighty [3pp] I realize that this is a huge headache for some. But please realize that this is something that excites me. I am not trying to do this just for the purposes of being able to have every set of tradeoffs in the game (in truth, I may not even settle on this!) I am doing this because music inspires me to feel certain ways. I would imagine it does the same for Breakdown. This is something that I would legitimately like to see happen for the character. It is also something that I would like to try to really test this game system and see what it is capable of. As always, thanks for your time Sincerely, Quote
angrydurf Posted July 16, 2009 Posted July 16, 2009 Here's the main issue I think you will find people have with this system. At the very least it would be my concern if I was running a game where this was proposed. Multiple Alternate forms already gives a large "toolbox" utility to a character as you can specialize quite a bit but switch fairly freely to other specilizations. This at an extreme leads to a character that really can "do it all". Not so bad as really mechanically other than a few utility powers (that the alt form would allow you to vary between) all characters that meet the same caps are identical with differing descriptors. What allows for truely varried characters in this game is trade offs. You can make a much tougher brick or a much more defense oriented speedster by varried trade offs. This leads into the real problem. If each form has its own set of trade offs you really can "do it all" as you become tough as the toughes brick or speedy as the fastest speedster, hit as hard as powerhouse or as accurately as a martial artist. Personally I come from a school of thought that a character should have weaknesses and stuff they just can't do, thats mostly a philosophical debate though. More relevent is how he will fit into group dynamics? If he can really "do it all" as well as the specialists he kinda crosses out the need for those more specialized characters. Of course this is a possibility with any shapshifter styel character, they vary what they do and are a staple of comics but generally they are not quite as good as a specialist in any given area. So two options on how to simulate that limit the trade offs to +1 or +2 (honestly I think +3 woudl be fine but that we should generally be allowed +/-5, seperate issue). The other is just to say stick with base +/-0 and vary the forms based on utility and extras like impervious and super strength and varrious power feats. The other half of this which you do start to address is the speed at which you can switch roles. Normaly you can just assume a form as a free action once per round thats a bit too quick IMHO. THe tree idea helps but I might suggest more of a web formation where the center point is a powered down "normal form" that you might have to go through to really vary what you do. Just my 2 sheckels
quotemyname Posted July 16, 2009 Author Posted July 16, 2009 And they are both very good points. In fact, I have no argument against them, except to point out that my "tree" is actually rather similar to your "web" in my head. The only difference is that you seem to be implying the following as demonstrated by a helpful example. If Breakdown were currently in Reggae Form, and he wanted to switch to Metal, he would have to do the following each on successive turns: Free Action: Switch to Ska Free Action: Switch to Normal Free Action: Switch to Rock Free Action: Switch to Metal Therefore it would actually take him a full four rounds to adjust to a new set of trade-offs. He would also be pathetically weak for the round that he spends in Normal Form. So this creates a new situation entirely. Yes I have a character that can do it all. And yes, he can do it as well as each and every specialist there is. However if he wants to switch to, or utilize a different skill set or specialty than the one he is currently using, it can be a long drawn out process. Where as the brick in the group would spend four turns smashing things in the face very hard, Breakdown would have to spend those four turns simply to get the ability to do so. One of these four rounds would leave him very weak and susceptible to attack (+0 Toughness in Normal/No Form). No great advantage should come without a drawback. If you are specialized in just one thing you can do it well all of the time, however you are worse at other things, or cannot do them at all. If you seek to be a master of everything, you may end up as just that. But the process by which this mastery is attained is an extremely difficult one. In closing I would like to stress that this is not necessarily my plan for this character. I am simply wondering if this type of thing is allowed. And if it is not allowed, I would like to know why that is. Any methods of logical reasoning will be happily received by me. I am just trying to understand what I have gotten myself into with this character, and what I can and cannot do with him.
angrydurf Posted July 16, 2009 Posted July 16, 2009 Well its an either/or kinda thing in my opinion. Either characters shouldn't be able to switch trade offs or in order to do so there needs to be a signifigant downside like taking a few rounds. I would build the webalong the lines of clusters of similar powers (perhaps with similar trade offs) Like rock is an offensive set with High save DC and toughness, off of rock is like metal/alternative and maybe punk, then theres an electonic node thats more deffensive/quick with High attack and Defense trade offs, off of that would be like trance, club, pop, disco. Then maybe a more even keeled Folk based form with no or low trade offs that branches into jazz and blues and reggae. Then a few cross over forms like punk and reggae linked through a ska from that allows you to switch into the rock portion without going through the normal center, and like a jazz or blues matches up to Rap as does Club etc. So to switch between forms in the same cluster woudl be trivial either direct or having to step through the 'main' form at most but all have similar trade offs, in order to switch to very different trade offs woudl take 3-4 rounds maybe. So in a fight it might be hard to switch out for vastly differing forms it wouldn't be an issue to take a few rounds to get set out of combat. Now the real issue with the whole web or tree format is that systemwise it is extremely hard to represent really. Basically it would have to be limitations like can only adopt form X if in form Y or Z but not A, B, or C, which is clunky at best.
quotemyname Posted July 16, 2009 Author Posted July 16, 2009 clearly you are just into music as I am. o_O In reality I am probably not going to do anything this complicated. Not only would it be a pain to play, but it would also be a pain to judge. Ecal pointed out that if I try to get something along these lines approved, the general response of the refs would be a big fat, "lolno". Mainly because they don't want to deal with it. And I don't blame them. I may have bitten off more than I can chew with this thread. I am going to point you back to this thread which has a question that I am more concerned about.
Dr Archeville Posted July 18, 2009 Posted July 18, 2009 Yeah, what AngryDurf said. Five Alt Forms really should be more than enough, I'd think.
quotemyname Posted July 18, 2009 Author Posted July 18, 2009 You mean I can't have the two more that I was drawing up for this month? No tree structure or anything... Just more forms.
Dr Archeville Posted July 18, 2009 Posted July 18, 2009 Correct. You are not going to be allowed to have an Alt Form for each genre/type of music that he'd listen to.
quotemyname Posted July 18, 2009 Author Posted July 18, 2009 Awww poop... I was planning on stopping at those any way... Looks like I'll just be power stunting a lot of things in the future ;)
Ecalsneerg Posted July 18, 2009 Posted July 18, 2009 Well, that is the genius of the game. You think I'd stat up every single arrow in Hawky's quiver? No. Only the most common need statted, and the uncommon are stunts.
quotemyname Posted July 18, 2009 Author Posted July 18, 2009 looks like I might be buying some more luck... that or..."Hey Edge! Can I borrow another HP?!"
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