Elongation Question

[quotemyname]

If you have Elongation that applies to your whole body (e.g. Mr. Fantastic from the Fantastic 4), can you grapple with just your torso?

I am thinking of a case where a character is unable to employ the use of legs or arms to anchor himself to an opponent. Either his arms and legs are indesposed, or he lacks them entirely...I still think the character should be able to snake around his opponent and wrap them up like a boa constrictor, right?

[Dr Archeville]

I believe you'd still need the Improved Grapple feat for that.

Or Additional Limb 1 (can use torso as a limb)

[quotemyname]

Hmm... Okay. I was really asking on behalf of Arcane_Snowman, but now I am intrigued. Can you explain why that is in a little more detail for me please? (or at least why you would rule that way?)

[Dr Archeville]

To use something that's not a limb as a limb (most common example being manipulatory feet, like what Henry McCoy has), you use Additional Limbs.

Though if it's an example of a character with no limbs (like some sort of snake-person), you don't need Additional Limbs, but you also won't have the full "No Limbs" disability drawback.

[quotemyname]

I believe the example he was thinking of was a person similar to Voldo (Soul Caliber) wearing a straight jacket

[Dr Archeville]

..... buh?

[quotemyname]

Voldo is a character whose spine was surgically removed. Thus he is very flexible. (Why he isn't dead is anyone's guess) His fighting style reflects that.

Add elongation, and put on a straight jacket because he is KRAYZY! ...and that's the character as far as I understand it. The straight jacket explains why he has no hands for the above example.

[Dr Archeville]

That sounds (more than) a bit too squick for this place.

[quotemyname]

That may not be the actual reasoning for why he is so flexible. It's just the character he was based on. It's more than likely that the flexibility is based solely on the elongation ranks. Think the "low squick" version of what I said earlier.

Even if it is still too squick...Do me a favor and ignore the squick value just for a second. Do you understand the concept I was trying to put forward?

[angrydurf]

I think the deal is that systemwise if you want your torso to be flexible enough to grapple by itself it needs to be an aditional limb by the rules. If you have a character lacking arms (or usable arms) then the drawback points and the extra limb points somewhat negate eachother but you would still need to buy the extra limb (torso) ability in order to have your elongation be that effective though pointswise I think the cost comes out pretty even.

[quotemyname]

Okay, I think I understand. Hope A_S sees all this...

[Arcane Snowman]

If you have a character lacking arms (or usable arms) then the drawback points and the extra limb points somewhat negate eachother but you would still need to buy the extra limb (torso) ability in order to have your elongation be that effective though pointswise I think the cost comes out pretty even.

This I don't understand, how can making the torso flexible enough to grapple (Additional Limb) even out with the loss of arms and hand? You cannot do anything the requires finesse. Comparatively it's a 5 point drawback for no arms (and consequently no hands), and 1 point for additional limb (torso).

[quotemyname]

I don't think he meant it COMPLETELY evens out.

[angrydurf]

No it doesn't completly even out. You get the 5 drawback points and then spend 1 on additional limb (torso) but don't get hte aditional limb functionality for 'free' with elongation.

[Arcane Snowman]

Cool, on the same page now. Great.

[Dr Archeville]

Not quite: if your torso is flexible enough that it can be used as well as a pair of regular hands, and you don't have actual hands (ex: you're some type of snake-person), you don't get the "No Hands" drawback, but you also don't need Additional Limbs, because your torso is your hands/limb.

[Arcane Snowman]

Not quite: if your torso is flexible enough that it can be used as well as a pair of regular hands, and you don't have actual hands (ex: you're some type of snake-person), you don't get the "No Hands" drawback, but you also don't need Additional Limbs, because your torso is your hands/limb.

Well, that's not what I'm after, the torso only needs to be flexible enough that I can grapple without hands, period.

[Dr Archeville]

Then take Additional Limb 1 (can use torso to grapple).

[quotemyname]

D_A:

Then take Additional Limb 1 (can use torso to grapple).

Is that some sort of drawback or limitation for the power? Or is it simply a descriptor? Forgive my ignorance as I am AFB and cannot look it up.

A_S:

Not having hands is never a good thing. That's why its worth so many points as a drawback.

This is why (also because it is situationaly and thematically appropriate for this character) I suggested applying the "No Arms/Hands" Drawback directly to the Straight Jacket device. This will represent the fact that you character only has this drawback while the jacket is in place. When he takes it off/it is taken away from him, he will regain full use of his arms / hands.

If you apply the drawback directly to the Device power, it will reduce the cost of the power points you must spend on attaining the device. This would be like getting another rank of Device for free! If you apply it to some power within the device, it will simply allow you to allocate more points within the device. I personally feel the former is a more appropriate choice since it is the jacket itself that is constricting you, not one of the powers granted by the jacket (although I suppose an argument may be made for powers like protection...)

Keep in mind that if you take this path, while the character will regain the use of his arms without the jacket on, he will not be able to apply his ranks of elongation to his arms. This is assuming that you buy the aforementioned:

Then take Additional Limb 1 (can use torso to grapple).

If you buy further elongation ranks that specifically affect your entire person, then they will apply to your other limbs/arms.

Just some of my additional thoughts.

[Dr Archeville]

Is that some sort of drawback or limitation for the power? Or is it simply a descriptor? Forgive my ignorance as I am AFB and cannot look it up.

Descriptor. If it was a Drawback or Limitation, I would've listed it as such :P

[quotemyname]

Okay, and as such, does it allow the elongation ranks to affect his other body parts?

[Dr Archeville]

The two have nothing to do with each other.

Elongation lets you elongate.

Additional Limbs ether gives you additional manipulatory limbs, or lets you use something that's not a manipulatory limb (feet, a stretchy torso, etc.) as a manipulatory limb.

[quotemyname]

Yea, I thought so.