Upgrading Characters and "Rollover PP's"

[quotemyname]

Situation: A player has a PL10 character and a PL6 character and achieves gold status with his PL10.

He decides to ditch his PL6 and make a second PL10. He creates this character at PL10/150pp. This is understandable as it is a new character.

What I don't understand is the following:

Same scenario, except: He decides to upgrade his PL6 character to PL10. He then re-creates the character at PL10/150pp, losing any pp's he has earned with that character before this event!

To me, this simply seems to encourage a reduced amount of role playing. It is easy to see how someone might say, "Why bother posting as my PL6 when the extra points I earn are just going to get wiped away when I bump him up anyways?"

My question:

Would it be possible to revise the rules that pertain to Gold Status players to include the following:

Any extra power points earned above the PL6/90pp state carry over to the PL10/150pp character when he is upgraded. For instance a character that is PL6/99pp would upgrade to PL10/159pp.

To be completely frank, it just seems like a silly limitation to me. But maybe I am completely missing the point (if there is one). If this is the case, please enlighten me!

[angrydurf]

I'm also curious about the impact of Platinum status being available now on this

Are the PP on the upgraded PL 6 kept track of for the purposes of going Platinum? IE if my Pl6 earns 31pp and I upgrade him to PL10 then he earns 29 more PP I've earned the 60 needed for platnum but if the PP wipe loses the first 31 then I need to earn a total of 91pp to hit platinum doesn't seem like it would work that well.

[Dr Archeville]

PPs which are earned are tracked for purposes of when Platinum would be awarded. Quark's PL 10 char sheet shows how.

At the time the rule on how Gold Status works was implemented, the consensus among the Refs was for points not to transfer over, b/c it'd mean your "PL 10" char would be more like PL 11 or 12. The point of the award was to give you two PL 10 chars, not +40pp to one char.

As for "Why bother playing," well, IMO such questions are indicative of someone playing primarily for points/power, which is not a good thing.

[quotemyname]

As for "Why bother playing," well, IMO such questions are indicative of someone playing primarily for points/power, which is not a good thing.

As true as that may be, it can still be discouraging for some. And even if you upgrade your character and lose all your power points, you still not getting two PL10's. You are most likely getting a PL12 and a PL10-11. Most player's PL6 is their secondary character. And what is so terrible about just adding on enough power points to cover the difference between PL10 and PL6? IMO, you earned those points, you should get to keep them, not get LESS points when you make an upgrade

[Avenger Assembled]

I don't really have a problem with how things are currently set up. You get sixty points to sink into the PC being upgraded, it's not as if you can't just buy back whatever it is you gained as a PL 6. That said, I do admit it's a kludge. (But that's OK; a lot of our rules are that way! There's nothing wrong with setting things up to avoid particular outcomes )The big thing is, I'm not really comfortable with the idea of characters jumping from PL 7-8 up to 11-12. Particularly with the Claremont kids, but with street-level heroes as well, that just raises some really awkward, not-good-for-the-setting questions that are best left avoided.

("Elite! You just went from PL 8 to PL 12 in a week and a half! How did you do that?" "I did a lot of steroids!")

See, it just opens too many questions.

[angrydurf]

("Elite! You just went from PL 8 to PL 12 in a week and a half! How did you do that?" "I did a lot of steroids!")

See, it just opens too many questions.

Uhmm change in writers?

[quotemyname]

The same could be said for a character that doesn't get much playtime jumping from PL6 to PL10, however. Its the exact same PL jump.

So the issue here is basically just, "That's the way things are." I guess i shouldn't hope for much change here. Oh well like you said its a "kludge"

[alderwitch]

Well, personally, I can say that while it does affect where I put my extra PP from NPCs and things like that, as I put them all on my PL 10, it really doesn't affect who I play more often.

[quotemyname]

Same here. That being said, it would be nice to be able to keep those points.

[N/A]

I raised this issue myself months ago. The Refs weren't open to changing this policy then, so I doubt they will be now.

Quote raises a good point. Mechanically speaking, there is no incentive to posting with your PL6 character. It doesn't matter if they've been making 100 IC posts a month or 0, they'll have the same number of points when you hit Gold and upgrade them: 150.

I do agree, however, that mechanical benefit is not the only reason to post with a character. The fun of the play experience should be the primary concern, with advancement secondary. That having been said, I certainly wouldn't mind if earned power points "rolled over." I'd even be happy if only a fraction of them carried over.

[quotemyname]

I like the idea of a fraction of the points rolling over. It seems like a reasonable compromise.

Maybe you can keep any rolled over points, but not exceed the boundaries of PL10? so if you upgrade while having fifteen points, you only actually get 159pps.

that prevents you from going from pl8 to pl12. you would just go to a powerful pl10, but pl10 nonetheless

[N/A]

Another consideration is that these rules were made back when characters were only earning 1-3PP per month on the average. Our generation of players posts far more frequently than our predecessors. Hitting Gold Status used to take people a year and a half of consistent play. Now it takes us 6-7 months. That's x3 faster, for those of you who suck at arithmetic.

[Dr Archeville]

Yes, you're all horrible people for breaking our finely-tuned system

I could probably get behind the idea of having a portion transfer over. (Then again, I'm biased, since I had a PL 6 char who lost lots of earned pps when he graduated to PL 10.)

[N/A]

I could probably get behind the idea of having a portion transfer over. (Then again, I'm biased, since I had a PL 6 char who lost lots of earned pps when he graduated to PL 10.)

I'm sure people would be fine with you getting a pile of pro-rated bonus PP for everyone's favorite deal-making Devil.

[angrydurf]

Since the issue seems to be that that the Refs don't like the idea of a character suddenly jumping 4 PLs (though I don't agree as powering up is a common event in comics and most people do threads to explain the sudden PL jump like grims trip to Avalon or Belphagors trip to hell)

But if the big jump is the issue than a jump from PL 6 to 10 is just as much and issue as 8 to 12 why not decide how much of a jump is felt to be appropriate and award bonus PP in that amount?

So say they feel a 2 PL jump is what they want to see. Hitting gold allows you to create a second character at PL 8 120pp or add 30 pp to a current character that started at PL 6.

It gives incentive to Earn PP on your PL 6 instea of just coasting for gold and ensures that a given character will only go up in PL as much as the refs feel is fair.

Old gold charaters etc can just be grandfathered in so no big rewrites needed or anything.

If the issue is really that a 4 PL jump is too much that seems to be the best solution. If the refs just don't want that many PL 12s running around then the current system fits, though people will hit PL 12 anyway so its not really solving that.

All that said I'm fine with my PL 6 "just" getting a 2 PL bump even if less active PL 6s get a 4 PL bump, Really I just want to get to Platinum and another character slot

[quotemyname]

Yea I don't have a problem with people earning ex-post-facto points so to speak. It's only fair.

[Dr Archeville]

First off, I think we need to see just who is Gold around here.

Me (Belphegor)

Geez3r (though I think he said he might retire Red Star and just make a new PL 10 guy)

Heritage (Grimalkin)

MBCE (Ghost)

Sandman (Quark)

(and Heridfel, MarkK, Shadowboxer, and Thevshi.)

I miss anyone?

[angrydurf]

AA is also gold though he just built at PL 10 so no need to roll over any PP.

[Dr Archeville]

So say they feel a 2 PL jump is what they want to see. Hitting gold allows you to create a second character at PL 8 120pp or add 30 pp to a current character that started at PL 6.

It gives incentive to Earn PP on your PL 6 instead of just coasting for gold and ensures that a given character will only go up in PL as much as the refs feel is fair.

Funny thing about that: if we did have "+2 PL/+30pp" as the Gold reward, this is what we'd get:

Belphegor would be PL 9 (137 pp)

Ghost would be PL 10 (151 pp)

Grimalkin would be PL 10 (152 pp)

Quark would be PL 10 (154 pp)

[quotemyname]

Is that a problem? I thought you were trying to make sure that we didn't have a load of uber characters running around all of a sudden?

[N/A]

I don't think we should change the "get a new PL10/PP150 or upgrade an existing character to PL10/PP150" idea. I just wouldn't mind seeing the upgraded characters get even a fraction of the PP they earned after character gen "rolled over." I certainly don't want to see any of those upgraded PL10s go down in PL. That's ridiculous. Let's not make this more complicated than it needs to be.

[Dr Archeville]

Well, it'd be more work for me, since I'd need to whittle 1 PL (and 13pp) off my demon

Seriously, though, the biggest issue with the Gold and Platinum rewards was in making sure it was equally attractive to all players. That's why, for Platinum, we gave so many choices: something for folks who had two chars and wanted a third, something for folks who had two chars but didn't want a third or who had one but wanted a second, and something for folks who had just one char and didn't want a second.

Gold should be similar: something that's (roughly) equally attractive to those who have two chars, those who have one and do want a second, and those who have one but aren't interested in a second.

So... moar suggestions, folks?

[Nyrath]

How about letting those rolled up keep, say, a third of the points they've earned? So if you reached Gold status with your PL 6 (i.e 30pp) they'd get to keep 10. If they'd earned 15pp they'd keep 5, and so on. The only case someone would end up above PL 10 is if they'd reached Gold with a PL 6.

[angrydurf]

Well I wouldn't suggest changing the old Gold upgrades around just say they got lucky and went gold before the rule changed.

Maybe have a you went gold heres X PP to split amongst your characters as you wish? So you could add say 2 PL to one character or 1PL to both.

Personally I would love the option of a third PC at gold as well but others have said thats not gonna happen most likely

[quotemyname]

as far as options go... how about a downgraded version of the sidekick/equipment points that you get at platinum?