ESP / Telelocation & Extended Searches

[Dr Archeville]

I think I've got the math right on this, but a second brain would be appreciated.

Freedom City's about 15 x 25 miles, or about 20 miles in diameter. That's about 10 miles radius.

That's 12 steps up on the Extended Range & Area Table.

Which means an Extended Search of the entire city -- such as by using ESP or Telelocation -- would be 12 steps up the Time Table. Or 10 years.

Quickness can reduce this, but even Quickness 12 only takes it to about 8 hours.

Right?

[angrydurf]

10 mile radius is rank 13 on the UP Progeression table thats gonna be 10,000 full rounds to search so 30,000 seconds or 500 minutes or 8 hours and 20 minutes without any rapid by my calculations. So rapid 13 would drop that too 1 full round again I believe. Thats without taking 20 though. Taking 20 multiplies the time by 20 so 166 hours and 40 minutes without any rapid to take 20, or 20 rounds with rapid.

the jump for 13 to 14 on the table is 25x so I think with Rapid 14 it would actually be possible to take 20 on ESP searching the whole city. I think.

[Geez3r]

Okay, my understanding of the situation:

Search normally works on a 5ft x 5ft area. ESP lets you search a progressively larger and larger area; ie: 1 step up the Extended Range Table, not the Extended Area Table.

20 Miles is 5 steps above 10 ft on the Extended range table.

5 steps above 1 minute on the time Table would be 1 day to Search the entire city.

You may also increase the DC to perform the task quicker.

You can reduce the time required for an extended search by increasing the DC of the Search check: each step down the Time and Value Progression Table, to a minimum of a full round, is +5 DC. The Quickness power (see page 96) can also reduce the time for an extended search.

From the book.

Example: A hero wants to search an area a mile in diameter using ESP. This is four steps up the Extended Range Table, so the GM moves four steps up the Time and Value Progression Table and gets a base time of one hour to make the search. If the hero wanted to quickly search a mile radius to find a certain object (DC 10), rather than taking an hour, he can increase the DC by +20 (to DC 30) and accomplish the search in one round (four steps down the Time and Value Progression Table).

Johnny Rocket, who has Super-Speed 10, wants to search the same 1-mile radius. This would normally take an hour, but Johnny’s Super-Speed allows him to perform routine tasks 2,500 times faster than normal. This allows him to perform the search in less than 3 seconds (one standard action). If Johnny decides to take 20 on his Search check, it takes him about 30 seconds (one hour × 20 /2,500 = 28.8 seconds) or 5 full rounds to search the whole radius.

I am following the rules as per the Core Rulebook as this is a Skill Challenge and therefore the Core Book has Priority.

[N/A]

DocA, you're way off base. Go back and read the book again. We've had this argument before. The distance on the Extended Range table is the diameter of the search area. Not the total square footage. Not the total cubic footage. Diameter.

From the book entry on the Search skill (emphasis added by me):

Extended Searches: Certain powersâ€â€notably ESP, Quickness, Super-Senses, and Super-Speedâ€â€greatly extend the area you can search at once. When searching for something over an extended area, use the following guidelines. Determine the area’s approximate diameter. For each step up the Extended Range Table (starting at 10 feet for twice the normal Search area), move the time required to search the area one step up the Time and Value Progression Table (starting at one minute, the interval above a full round). See pages 69 and 70 for those tables. You can reduce the time required for an extended search by increasing the DC of the Search check: each step down the Time and Value Progression Table, to a minimum of a full round, is +5 DC. The Quickness power (see page 96) can also reduce the time for an extended search.

Example: A hero wants to search an area a mile in diameter using ESP. This is four steps up the Extended Range Table, so the GM moves four steps up the Time and Value Progression Table and gets a base time of one hour to make the search. If the hero wanted to quickly search a mile diameter to find a certain object (DC 10), rather than taking an hour, he can increase the DC by +20 (to DC 30) and accomplish the search in one round (four steps down the Time and Value Progression Table).

Johnny Rocket, who has Super-Speed 10, wants to search the same 1-mile diameter. This would normally take an hour, but Johnny’s Super-Speed allows him to perform routine tasks 2,500 times faster than normal. This allows him to perform the search in less than 3 seconds (one standard action). If Johnny decides to take 20 on his Search check, it takes him about 30 seconds (one hour × 20 / 2,500 = 28.8 seconds) or 5 full rounds to search the whole diameter.

Look at the first example. When calculating Extended Search times, you start at rank 1 (10 feet) on the Extended Range table, since the default full round search is a 5ft x 5ft area (which is 5ft in diameter). 4 steps on that table gives you 1 mile. You start at rank 3 (1 minute) on the Time Table, since that's the first rank above "1 round," the time for a normal search. They specifically say for an area 1 mile in diameter, they go 4 steps up the Range table, then 4 steps up the Time Table. 4 steps up the Time Table takes us from 1 minute to 1 hour. This matches the example's listed time of 1 mile diameter area = 1 hour base search time.

[N/A]

Also, since Freedom City is about 15 x 25 miles, I think it's best to assume an average diameter of 20 miles, so it fits at rank 6 on the Extended Range chart. This makes things nice and simple.

15 x 25 = 375 square miles.

20 x 20 = 400 square miles.

Close enough.

[Dr Archeville]

Alright, I thought things seemed really off.

And now we have one coherent, semi-official thread to record it all ;)

[Dr Archeville]

So, for the record

 

Searching 1 mile diameter (4 steps up the Range table) takes 1 hour (4 steps up the Time table).

And searching Freedom City -- ~20 miles diameter (6 steps up) -- takes 1 day (6 steps up the Time table).

And searching the entire Earth -- ~8,000 miles in diameter (9 steps up) -- takes 3 months (9 steps up).

 

Right?

 

 

 

[N/A]

Yes, all that is correct.

Except I think for the purposes of the Earth, where your flat search area is stretched out over a sphere, I think you'd actually look at the circumference of that sphere (about 20,000 miles) for the "diameter." Which is the same spot on the Extended Range table, so the difference is academic.

[N/A]

As long as we're asking questions about ESP and Telelocation, here's one I've had since before I joined:

ESP that displaces an Accurate sense can be used to target Perception-range powers at the extended ESP range. Can Telelocation do the same thing? Does Telelocation itself count as an Accurate sense for targeting Perception-range powers?

Also, it bears mentioning that Telelocation, unlike ESP, has a Lasting Duration. Your knowledge of your quarry's exact location persists until he shakes off the effect, even if you cease maintaining it or switch to an Alternate Power in the same array.

[Dr Archeville]

I would lean towards "no". Telelocation seems to be a mental sense ESP, and mental senses aren't accurate by default.

[N/A]

What if the character had added the necessary extras (Accurate, Acute, Ranged) to his Mental Sense (which, according to UP, has no sensory extras by default)?

[Dr Archeville]

That would be the recipe for a Bathroom Mentalist, yes.

[quotemyname]

I chuckle every time someone says those words. I get the image of a guy sitting on the john reading the paper and throwing blasts at super villains everywhere :P

[Ecalsneerg]

I chuckle every time someone says those words. I get the image of a guy sitting on the john reading the paper and throwing blasts at super villains everywhere

Replace 'paper' with 'laptop', 'blasts' with 'bans' and 'super villains' as 'weirdos', you have my Ref duties :P