Super Senses array

[angrydurf]

Before I go indepth into my character edits I wanted to check if this kind of build would be workable.

Super Senses: 4 (Empowered senses; Penetrates Concelament: Visual; PFs: Alternate Power) [5]

AP: Super Senses: 4 (Empowered senses; Ultra Hearing, Ultra vision, Extended Vision, Extended Hearing)

[quotemyname]

So it basically just represents you focusing more on a particular sense more than others for the time being? That seems like it would work.

[Dr Archeville]

I believe UP advises against Super-Sense arrays. And I agree; makes it way too cheap to get every super-sense imaginable.

[quotemyname]

Heh. And here the power gamer in me was just saying, "That's a great idea! It would be so cheap!" Good thing Doc's looking out for us! :P

[Dr Archeville]

Good thing Doc's looking out for us!

The health of my body and my 'net connection permitting ;)

[angrydurf]

Yea I saw that in UP which is why I was asking before just slapping into character edits. However it seems that that particular call in UP is a little incongruous with Arrays in general and particularly with some constructions here. Most notably Hellion has an Array that grants a great deal of Charisma and many skill points, with a nother settign thats is a large amount of strength and several melee combat feats (Copied from at least one version of belphagor I believe) I fail to see how that is less problematic than haveing an array of super senses dependant upon how you are focusing your attention.

This seems a far more innocuous use of arrays than most arrays really which can give a vast amout of varried powers at a very low cost compared to having to get them all at normal cost.

[Ecalsneerg]

I'd have to agree with durf. Being able to hear or see well seems less abusive than awesome senses or combat bunny or social dynamo or blaster, etc...

[Moira Morley]

I'd have to agree with durf. Being able to hear or see well seems less abusive than awesome senses or combat bunny or social dynamo or blaster, etc...

"It's magic, we don't have to explain it!" :P

[quotemyname]

Wizard did it.

[Avenger Assembled]

It does seem like if we're going to allow the one, we should allow the other.

[N/A]

I concur with Durf. This seems innocuous.

[Dr Archeville]

My concern on super-senses isn't just the potential mechanical abuse, but also making sure the fluff works, too.

To use this particular set-up's example: why would switching to x-ray vision make him suddenly unable to hear as far or as wide-spectrum-ly? I can understand losing other vision-based things -- he's cycling through optical modes, like the Predator in Predator 2 -- but the hearing/vision thing makes me scratch my head.

[quotemyname]

Normal everyday conversation between normal people:

"Do you hear that?"

*Concentrates really hard* "Oh yea, now I do."

"What about that over there? Do you see that?"

*Places hand on forehead to minimize glare* "Wait... Yep, I see it now."

I think it's totally plausible that somebody can concentrate on a different sense in order to improve it. In the above example, the person would likely not be able to hear "that first thing" any longer while he was concentrating on "that other thing"

[angrydurf]

Well conceptually Its pretty much as quote said. Basically he's still learning to use his powers and all so most of hte time his senses are just a little better than average, then when he focusess those senses become more limited as he concentrates on looking through a wall. Eventually he'd develop the ability to keep them all active at once.

I do see what you mean with hearing and vision not seeming intrinsicly linked, it just seems an odd place to draw the line considering the types of varried arrays already allowed.

Aditionally I personally find its a little bit of a dangerous precedent to say that one power descriptor is fine to have wildly varried arrays attatched too and others are not. Origin/power source descriptors are basically supposed to be created equaly to say that you can do one thing with one type and not another doesn't sit well with me on a balance level.

[N/A]

Yea I saw that in UP which is why I was asking before just slapping into character edits. However it seems that that particular call in UP is a little incongruous with Arrays in general and particularly with some constructions here. Most notably Hellion has an Array that grants a great deal of Charisma and many skill points, with a nother settign thats is a large amount of strength and several melee combat feats (Copied from at least one version of belphagor I believe) I fail to see how that is less problematic than haveing an array of super senses dependant upon how you are focusing your attention.

This seems a far more innocuous use of arrays than most arrays really which can give a vast amout of varried powers at a very low cost compared to having to get them all at normal cost.

I should also mention that the sort of builds you're talking about, when so much of a character's non-power traits are taken as powers and rolled up into an array, is a build type I've always been uncomfortable with, and have approved mostly due to precedents set before my time.

I echo DocA's reservations about bundling senses of different types into an array together, but I wouldn't necessarily ban it outright.

[Dr Archeville]

I do see what you mean with hearing and vision not seeming intrinsically linked, it just seems an odd place to draw the line considering the types of varied arrays already allowed.

This is one reason why where those lines get drawn is the Topique du Jour in the Ref Cave.

Additionally I personally find its a little bit of a dangerous precedent to say that one power descriptor is fine to have wildly varied arrays attached too and others are not. Origin/power source descriptors are basically supposed to be created equally to say that you can do one thing with one type and not another doesn't sit well with me on a balance level.

I agree and disagree at the same time on this. Some descriptors are (or should be) broader than others. "Magic" is broader than "Divine Magic," which would be broader than "Hindu-themed Divine Magic". "Electromagnetic energy manipulation" would be broader than "light manipulation." And even within a relatively narrow field, like "necromancy" or "magnetic manipulation," there can be considerable wiggle room, as decades of comics and other fictions (books, tv, movies, and other RPGs inspired by same) have shown us.

Which touches on an earlier discussions held re: the broadness of descriptors, a discussion which should might should be brought back up.

[angrydurf]

I should also mention that the sort of builds you're talking about, when so much of a character's non-power traits are taken as powers and rolled up into an array, is a build type I've always been uncomfortable with, and have approved mostly due to precedents set before my time.

I echo DocA's reservations about bundling senses of different types into an array together, but I wouldn't necessarily ban it outright.

I will agree that those types of builds make me uncomfortable as well, Which is why I felt it was fairly reasonable to have a Super senses array in general. I do see the concern with how much "sense" it makes for hearing effects and visual ones to vary from array slot to array slot. It just seems like a rather arbitray line given the way some powers are set up. Also I doubt there woudl be much issue at all if this was bundled into a Power Armor device as a "sensor suite" or some such. But that goes back to the issue of what descriptors allow what breadth of choice in this sort of situation. Perhaps the topic of another discussion entirely.

Would this be acceptable if I changed it to Penetrates concealment AP'd with Ultravision, infravision, and extendedx2 so it was all visual senses being swaped around?