Mutants and Masterminds 3rd Edition Announced

[Dr Archeville]

GREEN RONIN TO RELEASE MUTANTS & MASTERMINDS THIRD EDITION

Classic Superhero RPG Gets New Edition This Fall

May 12, 2010--SEATTLE, WA: Green Ronin Publishing announced today that it is releasing a new edition of its critically acclaimed Mutants & Masterminds roleplaying game in the fall.

"We've had five years of feedback from one of the most active fanbases in roleplaying gaming," said Green Ronin President Chris Pramas. "Once we knew we'd be doing the DC ADVENTURES game, it just made sense to take that feedback and use it create the next iteration of the game."

Mutants & Masterminds debuted in 2002 and was an instant hit. A second edition followed in 2005 and in the ensuing years Green Ronin has released over 25 support books for the game. The third edition builds on these releases and evolves the rules.

"Our goal has been to make Mutants & Masterminds an even better game," said lead designer Steve Kenson. "We worked to simplify some elements of the system and fix known issues, while retaining the flexibility and fast-paced play fans have enjoyed."

"Mutants & Masterminds third edition and DC ADVENTURES share a common rule set," added Pramas, "and books from one line are compatible with the other."

The action begins this fall with the release of the Mutants & Masterminds Hero's Handbook. This full color core rulebook contains all the rules needed to play the game. More information and previews about Mutants & Masterminds third edition will appear on http://www.mutantsandmasterminds.com in the coming months.

And here is what the posters at the ATT have to say.

[Geez3r]

Unless it turns out to be good.

In which case: YAY

[Ecalsneerg]

This could prove interesting.

[N/A]

Hopefully, Kenson gets a more "crunchy" thinker to help him out with this edition, so it'll be more internally consistent on the details. He has to stop assuming that every campaign is just going to handwave things as much as he does.

I can't wait to see what solutions they come up with for M&M's "problem children."

[Dariusprime]

I've been wondering about 3rd edition for a couple of years now. I have to agree with you, Shaen. Let us hope they hire from the fan base. ;)

[N/A]

Is anyone other than Geez3r or myself actually excited about this instead of just worried or depressed? It seems like everyone else has forgotten just how much better 2E was than 1E.

[Starsign]

I'm not all familiar with the differences between 1e and 2e, could someone enlighten me please?. Regardless, I'll watch the info on 3e with great interest.

[Geez3r]

Dude, I had the Vader "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO" and everything. But if nothing else, I will geek out entirely and remake every character with the 3e rules. Like you don't understand, figuring out new RPG systems is my crack.

My wish list of crap that needs fixing/ should be in 3e:

Skills in general

Construct rules that work

A more intuitive Knockback and grapple system (I understand the current ones, but there's room for improvement)

A way to make characters with DC and Toughness Tradeoffs more comparable to those with Attack and Defense Tradeoffs

Pre-built NPC's that don't suck

They need to do a drag and drop of UP for the powers section

[Dr Archeville]

Is anyone other than Geez3r or myself actually excited about this instead of just worried or depressed? It seems like everyone else has forgotten just how much better 2E was than 1E.

I know full well how much an improvement 2E was over 1E, but I'm remaining cautiously optimistic until I actually see more on the new system.

I'd predict that, if they did follow one of the two D&D paths, they'd hew closer to the changes Pathfinder did than the ones seen in D&D 4E. I'd also expect to see some cribbing from the latest edition of Champions/the HERO System.

[Raveled]

Not entirely sure how I feel about this. My only real experience in migrating across game systems was going from D&D 3E to 4E. Which, to be fair, I think is a fair system, but that's neither here nor there.

Ah, well. More stuff to buy, I suppose.

[Ecalsneerg]

I'd predict that, if they did follow one of the two D&D paths, they'd hew closer to the changes Pathfinder did than the ones seen in D&D 4E.

In that they didn't actually know what was wrong with the system? :P

[Heritage]

I'm actually kind of pumped, and hoping for awesomeness! I also think Geez3r's wish list is spot-on.

[Dr Archeville]

From the discussion thread at the ATT:

The freelancers for DCA, of which I've just become a member, have seen some of these changes, and I just got the okay to give my opinion about the new material without giving away what the material is. For whatever my opinion is worth based on what you know of me from my posts on these forums.

The changes are all for the better, IMO. I really like this new edition, and you can take the comments from Kenson and Pramas in the press release at face value (e.g., they listened to the feedback from the fanbases, some elements of the system were simplified and known issues were fixed). I will likely buy all the releases for this new edition as I have most of the books from 2E.

I just want to reassure people who love the game as much as I do.

(Yes, that Taliesin.)

Okay, my Cautious Optimism just ratcheted up to "Why isn't this in my grubby paws now?!"

[Dariusprime]

In the end I'll just giggle and say I'm really stoked. :Harley:

[Geez3r]

I'll have to make a note to set some money aside so I can actually get the books when they come out. Alright, besides my list of things they need to fix, what else are they going to change?

If they go the UP route, which they should, what I hope they do is give a description of the Effects like they did in UP, and instead of a seperate powers section they have a bunch of preconstructed effects with like a 1 line decriptor. Example:

Damage Active, Standard, 1pp/rank

[insert copy, paste of UP section]

Prebuilt settings:

Damage Extras: Ranged [2pp/rank] - A damaging effect at range; ie: bullet, laser, lightning, etc.

Damage Extras: Penetrating [2pp/rank] - A melee attack that can damage sturdier targets; ie: a very sharp blade, weapons made of a special material, supernatural claws, etc.

And so on...

Shaen brought it up in chat the other day, but there's a chance they might do away with Ability Scores in general and sever more ties with traditional D&D. Replace anything that ability scores would do with skills, feats and powers. Also, sorry if I'm butchering your idea Shaen, I heard this second hand.

Also, I'm unsure if collapsing a ton of skills down into Science! would be a good thing or a bad thing, but the skills list IMO needs a bit of pruning.

[Ecalsneerg]

I'd like a GURPS-esque thing, where the default is individual skills, and there's a sidebar option for Skills!

[Rhyvurg]

What does this mean for the site? Will we be changing over to 3e as soon as it comes out? Will the IC threads be put on hold while we make the transition? Do we handwave the sudden differences in our characters, or will there be some kind of massive world-changing event like the Spellplauge WotC used for 4e?

[N/A]

What does this mean for the site? Will we be changing over to 3e as soon as it comes out? Will the IC threads be put on hold while we make the transition? Do we handwave the sudden differences in our characters, or will there be some kind of massive world-changing event like the Spellplauge WotC used for 4e?

We can't answer these kinds of questions right now. Until we actually see 3E, we have no idea whether or not we'll use it, or any part of it, and we can't make any such commitments.

[Rhyvurg]

The anticipation is killing me. Killing me I say!

[Barnum]

What does this mean for the site? Will we be changing over to 3e as soon as it comes out? Will the IC threads be put on hold while we make the transition? Do we handwave the sudden differences in our characters, or will there be some kind of massive world-changing event like the Spellplauge WotC used for 4e?

It is a good question, not just for this site, but for all GMs. I run two PbP M&M campaigns (without 16 total players and one co-GM) and one semi-regular (two sessions a month-ish) webcam game, and I also am adopting a "wait and see" mentality.

Some considerations on deciding when/if to convert to 3e:

-Do I, as the GM, like the new system, and do I think it will work well for the stories I want to tell?

-Do my players like the new system enough to go to the trouble to "buy and convert" . . . especially when their old books still work perfectly well.

-How long will it take for my (or any) potential player-base to purchase the new edition? With online games this is an especially valid concern since you can't just pass the book around the table.

-How long will it take before I am proficient enough to run a game with the new rules? No doubt any experienced GM will get the basics in a read through, but I wouldn't consider myself ready to run a game with a system until I can do so with the rule book (mostly) closed. In PbP games, there is a lot more time to look things up, but constantly consulting the rule book around a table (or webcam) is a drag on the fun.

-How long will it take before the players are proficient enough to "self run" and build characters they like? In an environment like this (and one of my PbP games), where players frequently run stories for themselves, you/I will want to give the players enough time to get "up to speed" on the new system to cut down on a lot of rules questions and bickering. Also, people love their M&M crunch! (Sounds like a breakfast cereal.) And it will take players some time to be familiar enough with the "economy" of the new point-buy system, assuming it has changed significantly, before they are ready to re-crunch their beloved heroes to 3e. Though, again, PbP grants copious amounts of extra time to look things up on-the-fly without significantly slowing the game down, which will be a plus for a system changeover.

So . . . we wait and see. :)

[Dr Archeville]

Well said, Barnum

From the ATT:

Hey - I just published a podcast where I interview Steve Kenson about Third Edition, DC Adventures and ICONS as well

You can find it here

ICONS is Kenson's new superhero RPG.

DC Adventures is out in August.

M&M 3E out "in Fall, probably October."

Kenson says a lot of the work on 3E is to clear away the legacy stuff from D&D.

Has a high degree of backwards compatibility with 2E.

Preview: Got rid of ability scores, just use the ability rank (2E ability bonus/modifier). Abilities go from -5 to +20 (not "3 to 18").

Still have feat: "Yes and no."

Grappling: "Yes, we still have it; yes, it is considerably different."

Superlink license will change to the Super-Powered license.

[Geez3r]

Okay, my Cautious Optimism just ratcheted up to "Why isn't this in my grubby paws now?!

Ditto.

No new FC book (or other setting book) until 2011.

EDIT: Also, I hope they tweak Growth, Density and Shrinking.

[N/A]

*reads ICONS*

Wow. Kenson is so bad at character generation, even in a system that he created, that he finally threw in the towel altogether and just made it random.

[Dr Archeville]

From the ATT:

Over in the Hero Lab thread, Colen (one of the programmers/supports of Hero Lab) has posted this:

http://www.atomicthinktank.com/viewtopi ... 51#p676939

...which clearly states their intentions to support M&M 3E. They just didn't have the software ready for use when the authors were writing the books.

[Dr Archeville]

From MutantsandMasterminds.com

May 25, 2010

Steve Kenson Talks DC Adventures and M&M 3E With Comic Hero News

Aaron Einhorn over at Comic Hero News sits down with designer Steve Kenson to talk about the upcoming DC Adventures and Mutants & Masterminds, Third Edition, games. Check out Steve's interview and the latest news!

Posted by Kenson at 10:21 AM