Interrupting Cow (OOC)

[Gizmo]

I'll be honest, I remain bemused as to why people continue to assume the worst possible intent from anything Erik says, treating mild ribbing as biting insults, but if that's the way he'd being perceived, then I've got to respect the feelings of the community on that. I've been making a specific point lately to do a lot of what you just suggested, Shaen, in an effort to mend some of that perception. I expect it'll be a gradual thing, but he's getting there.

I think a large problem is that we've been cosigned to mostly social threads. The Interceptors are very much a collection of action-oriented individuals, and I think it's natural to see some problems arise when they're left sitting on their hands too much. Objectively, they haven't been given a lot of chances to act like heroes outside of the demonic and Grue invasions, where they're really just bit players anyway.

This is gonna sound like a dare, but I mean it seriously: if any of the refs who take issue with the team were willing to run an adventure for us, I think it'd go a long way to resolving the problems. Give them a chance to actually work together and save the day! Compared to the other teams, we're very low on refs, especially with Geez often busy with larger plotlines, so outside assistance on that count would be much appreciated, I think.

Thematically, I see them as the team committed to not letting people slip through the cracks. The Freedom League and Young Freedom, to an extent, tend to get caught up with saving the world/universe/multiverse every weekend, and somebody should be around to handle, well, everything else. They're not the out-and-out most powerful characters, so their odds should be a little more desperate, they should have to take bigger chances and think further outside the box. They should be the unpredictable wildcards. I see them in the same vein as the Outsiders or the Luke Cage-led New Avengers, heck, even the JLI, in that they're looked down on for actually having a sense of humor.

I'd also like echo quote in that those of us actually on the team don't have a lot of huge problems with the way things are going right now. I feel like a lot of the 'issues' being perceived are coming from outside characters and players, in which case I'd just suggest 'don't join the Interceptors'. Are there specific problems people have of which I'm not aware?

[Geez3r]

Some people are saying that the Interceptors are unpracticed and unruly. To that I have this to say: duh!

The Interceptors is a training ground for those of us who didn't have our childhood to get used to having powers, dealing with super villains and everything else that goes along with it. I remember I line from when Grim snooped around Claremont for info. She was blown away by both the power level of the kids and the fact that they were still kids. The average age of the Interceptors is 22. That's the age when college students are just stepping out into the world for the first time. But the difference between the Interceptors and the other groups is that we don't have that experience from years of tutelage.

Young Freedom is housed at Claremont where young kids spend their formative years learning and experimenting with their powers, surrounded by those who care for and understand them. They've got a massive budget and plenty of facilities to learn in, and are expected, even encouraged to make mistakes. Think about it, how many X-Men have had difficulty controlling their powers at one point or another?

The Knights of Freedom on the other hand was a group of established heroes. They all had their own style down pat, but kept each other in the loop to pool their own collective resources so that they may battle evil more efficiently and grander scale. In a way, it was pretty much the same as the Freedom League or Justice League.

And right in between those two categories falls the Interceptors. We don't have the funding, we don't have the facilities, we don't have the massive support networks and we don't have the experience that any of the other teams have. But what we do have is each other and a drive to better ourselves. He need to heavily lean on one another because we're going through this all together, without much help from anyone else. We're helping each other take those first couple of steps into the real world.

The legacy of the Interceptors isn't the Interceptors at all. It's where the former members end up. The Interceptors will be the great heroes of the future. We trust in our teammates and set out to do good. Take it or leave it. Say whatever you want, but I think the Interceptors are exactly the kind of group this setting needs.

[quotemyname]

[Gizmo]

The man ain't wrong.

[N/A]

My personal views on the Interceptors are pretty well summed up in "Working The Bugs Out."

Honestly, I think a lot of this "issue" is the result of differing playstyles, differing ideas of what is "cool" or "fun," and clashes between RL personalities. And there's no "fix" for that. Some people will never agree, some people will always get under some other people's skins, and there's nothing for that. We can fiercely try to control everything and force everyone to play the way we want them to. Or we can accept that not everything is under our control or going to go exactly how we want it to go, and stop worrying ourselves into early graves or working ourselves up into a frenzy over every little annoyance.

My position during the back-alley discussions DokA keeps referring to is basically to leave the Interceptors to their own devices in their own corner of the 'verse, and only intervene if they truly cross the line from "behaving badly" to "acting unheroically." A lot of people find the Interceptors annoying. They think the Brownstone is a frathouse like any other, save that the jackasses inside have superpowers. Those people can just decide to not thread with the Interceptors. They don't really even have to read Interceptor threads. As long as they're at least trying to be superheroes, and as long as they don't slip into the role of villains, I think we should just stand back and let them do it their way. We need to separate out "times when a character is acting unheroically" versus "times when I personally find a character obnoxious."

I also think that Gizmo's idea about focusing more on action/adventure threads is a great one. This is hardly the first team I've seen bring out the worst in each other in purely social sessions/threads.

I'll be honest, I remain bemused as to why people continue to assume the worst possible intent from anything Erik says, treating mild ribbing as biting insults...

I think it's a vicious cycle. Someone feels insulted or annoyed at one thing that Jack says or does, so then they're more likely to feel the same way the next time, and the whole thing feeds on itself.

[angrydurf]

And that is why this was posted. We have alot of other peoples opinions but no idea what you are supposed to be. I think Geezer laid out an excellent Role for the Interceptors in that post. But I will note that's not what Giz or Quote said. So Is this what you all want the interceptors to be?

If so I will say that a little humbleness could go a long way to soothing frayed relations.

As for lack of threads. thats a problem we all have to deal with in one way or another. I will also say as quote said your team is basically a fast response team of BFGs (And Grimalkin ...) so apart from mass combats like the invasions their potential is a little limited.

[quotemyname]

As for the interceptors place in the setting, yea, I will totally default to Geez3r on this one.

I still would like to see the "fast response" and "more combat threads" ideas that Gizmo and I put forward come up as well, though.

If so I will say that a little humbleness could go a long way to soothing frayed relations.

If I've ever personally offended anyone, I'm sorry. I won't ask and you don't have to tell. I'm just going to apologize whether I need to or not. Let's smooth things over and get on with the rest of our lives :)

[angrydurf]

As for humbleness I mean mostly IC. You got some Big Ol Egos on that team. If they are supposed to be the "Still finding footing as heroes" team then some admission that they are not the end all be all would help their IC rep. Just advice if any of them care.

I'll say this about combat threads, and this is personal opinion only, They are boring and time consuming. I would much rather run a solid investigative plot-line than a "Villains attack landmark" plot where people speed over and commence with die rolling. But that's a personal opinion and reflects my play/GM style.

[Gizmo]

I think Geezer laid out an excellent Role for the Interceptors in that post. But I will note that's not what Giz or Quote said. So Is this what you all want the interceptors to be?

I don't see anything we've mentioned here as being mutually exclusive. The Interceptors were always conceptualized as a young adult team and as a more proactive group. Bombshell made a good point in Troubleshooter, that "The older group thinks you should get a haircut and fly right. The younger set thinks you're putting on airs." It's pretty natural that they're not terribly well liked; they've got some rough edges, definitely. I don't think that's as big a problem as its being made out to be, though.

[quotemyname]

I still have yet to disagree with anything either Gizmo or Geez3r have said.

[angrydurf]

Well Giz your initial response was mostly about your confusion on why JoaB wasn't well liked. Quote listed the team as a rapid response more cutting edge team.

Geezer expressed the team more as a breeding ground for heroes. Like in the history of Dynamo or JoaB down the road the Interceptors will be mentioned as the place they came into their own. I just wanted to ensure we're all on the same page with that. It isn't mutually exclusive though I will say that the ref consensus is we don't want an Outsiders Expy. Rapid crisis response is a good thing, the more flexible morality, we're less comfortable with.

That said overall there hasn't been much IC representation of that just alot of OOC noise about how the interceptors are the "Darkier and edgier" team.

[Gizmo]

Well Giz your initial response was mostly about your confusion on why JoaB wasn't well liked. Quote listed the team as a rapid response more cutting edge team.

My initial paragraph was about that, certainly. The other four in that post were about the team as a whole. Semantics, I suppose.

That said overall there hasn't been much IC representation of that just alot of OOC noise about how the interceptors are the "Darkier and edgier" team.

I think this is a major point of confusion. They're not 'darker and edgier' nor are they morally flexible. When I talk about them being unpredictable, I'm speaking in terms of tactics, coming up with novel uses for their powers and abilities rather than simply powering through. Just because they don't care what the papers say about them doesn't mean they're about to start throwing people off of bridges or robbing banks. If the concern is that they're going to start crossing those kinds of lines, I have to say it's completely unfounded.

[quotemyname]

I totally second that. I really haven't seen us do anything that I thought might even look at that line, let alone cross that.

So, Durf, if we abide by this:

Well Giz your initial response was mostly about your confusion on why JoaB wasn't well liked. Quote listed the team as a rapid response more cutting edge team.

Geezer expressed the team more as a breeding ground for heroes. Like in the history of Dynamo or JoaB down the road the Interceptors will be mentioned as the place they came into their own. I just wanted to ensure we're all on the same page with that. It isn't mutually exclusive though I will say that the ref consensus is we don't want an Outsiders Expy. Rapid crisis response is a good thing, the more flexible morality, we're less comfortable with.

That said overall there hasn't been much IC representation of that just alot of OOC noise about how the interceptors are the "Darkier and edgier" team.

Do we have a resolution?

[Avenger Assembled]

OK.

We've moved past "presenting your case" to flat-out "squabbling with the people trying to help you play better on the site", so I think it's worth changing the tone of the discussion a bit.

The Darker and Edgier behavior needs to come to an end. The jerkass behavior towards other characters needs to come to an end. Those plans that Geez3r and quote have outlined to actually turn the Interceptors into a team of superheroes? Those need to be put through.

Is this going to happen?

[quotemyname]

I'm all for it.

But just to be fair, can you provide an example of IC behavior from any of our characters that would qualify as the "Darker and Edgier behavior"? Just so I know what to watch out for and not repeat?

[Geez3r]

Exactly what quote said.

[Avenger Assembled]

You don't threaten other superheroes with lethal weapons. You don't threaten to break into their houses and attack them. The fact that it was stopped in chat and/or you were told to edit the post doesn't actually mean it's not a problem.

In re: justifications I have a feeling are in the offing: if you were just jokingLOL/playing in-character, then it should be even easier to avoid this problem in the future!

I'm sure there's something semantically wrong with what I just put together up above. I don't actually care. ;)

[Heritage]

AA, I'm glad you clarified that issue; I was monitoring this thread at work (bad Heritage!), and that was one of my questions as well. Those are indeed things to be avoided!

I must admit I was surprised by the depths of feeling out team inspired, and certainly apologize for my own part in it. I would really like to see our team regain some much needed respectably with both the characters and players on this site.

It was always my understanding that the Interceptors were meant to be a proactive team of young heroes who handled the sort of problems that went under the radar of groups like AEGIS or the Freedom League. I do think we got bogged down in social/interteam threads for a number of reasons, but I think this particular thread has acted as a wakeup call as to how we need to rethink our mission and focus. I also think threads like 'The SHADOW Falls' show us trying to be more actively heroic, for lack of a better word.

I also think not having chosen or appointed a team leader hurt us; this is not always a popular role to play, but I think a lack of any sort of command structure or division of labor, even at the most basic level, has held us back a bit. And my well-known awkwardness with certain elements of M&M 2nd edition have made me more likely to focus on characterization and the expense of more traditional superhero storylines, something that I've recently been trying to rectify.

I am all for any plans and guidelines we can implement to make the Interceptors a truly great team.

[quotemyname]

You don't threaten other superheroes with lethal weapons. You don't threaten to break into their houses and attack them. The fact that it was stopped in chat and/or you were told to edit the post doesn't actually mean it's not a problem.

In re: justifications I have a feeling are in the offing: if you were just jokingLOL/playing in-character, then it should be even easier to avoid this problem in the future!

I'm sure there's something semantically wrong with what I just put together up above. I don't actually care.

Chalk it up to the momentary lapse of judgement of a trigger happy cowboy who had a lack of sleep. Won't happen again ;)

[Dr Archeville]

I'm very glad all this has been dragged out into the light and explained to all.

Rapid Crisis Response = Good

Training Ground for New Heroes (too old [or not angsty enough] for Claremont, too inexperienced for the League) = Good

More non-social threads (combat, investigation, etc.) would definitely help you to show yourselves in a different light, in the light the team was meant to be seen in. I admit I dropped the ball on that one (and apologize for such), but I (and perhaps a few other Refs) can help rectify that in the very near future.

As for immediate changes, and to make sure that ginormous misunderstandings and build-ups of ill-will don't build up again, I'm going to make Vince the acting leader of the Interceptors. As an NPC he can easily be a mouthpiece for Ref concerns, which can be addressed as they arise. IC, he's got a direct line to Dok, and through him to many other experienced heroes, so he could easily morph into some conglomeration of inspiring, leader-y type heroes (but still keep some of his sense of humor).

Anything else? Any other concerns?

[quotemyname]

Yea, when do we start? ;)

[Dr Archeville]

Okay, who wants to actually continue this, hashing out what's been said OOC, and who wants to just fade to black/end it now?

[Heritage]

Kill! The! thread! Kill! the! thread!"

Seriously though, I say we fade out now; I kind of want to wash the aftertaste away as soon as possible and get down to business! :D

[quotemyname]

Gone on long enough for me...

/scene