Heridfel Posted January 23, 2008 Posted January 23, 2008 It looks like you only have a +2 modifier in Wisdom, so your total for Will save is +11, not +12. I'm editing that, and then you're approved.
Dr Archeville Posted October 15, 2008 Posted October 15, 2008 Un-archived and approval now pending some edits.
Dr Archeville Posted October 15, 2008 Posted October 15, 2008 His Protection needs to be lowered, it's 1 point over the new +/-3 limit on trade-offs. I'm very unfond of seeing BAB +0 & nothing but Perception-range effects. Nauseate can't have Incurable, because neither Healing nor Regeneration help with Nauseate. The cost of Immortality is off for him -- he just needs regeneration, since Immunity to Fort effects already cover disease & poison (and probably aging, too). I'm not sure his "No Wealth" thing would really be a drawback for him, since there's so much he either doesn't need or can create for himself. Liquid beings have Strength. Why doesn't he? More importantly, just what is he? What does it want? What are its goals? You give some basics, but I'd like a bit more detail.
eyeonthemountain Posted October 15, 2008 Author Posted October 15, 2008 Yes, he needs a total rewrite. I kinda cringe at seeing how I made him up before.
Dr Archeville Posted October 15, 2008 Posted October 15, 2008 Alright, then, let's start at the beginning. Who is it? What does it want? Why is it here? Where is it going?
eyeonthemountain Posted October 16, 2008 Author Posted October 16, 2008 The concept for this character is pretty simple and solid. He is a spirit created by the ancient primitive gods of earth who believe that if mankind's technology is destroyed, the ancient gods will return to power and influence, and they will once again be able to put mankind firmly under their thumb. Thus they created Sanctis to return mankind to the stone age. I am thinking how to make him up as a spirit. as total insubstantial is too much, and I am unsure if liquid accurately portrays his form. Maybe a gas with enough subtle that no one will know that until they interact with him. The Immunity fortitude and lack of any strength portrays his essential inhumanity. He cannot even do simple things like turning a page in a book. The problem I had with him before was his attack powers. Trying to give him versatility without going overboard is a fine line. I am not a fan of massive numbers of APs, so I try to avoid more than a couple, closely connected ones in my builds. Working on him now......
Dr Archeville Posted October 16, 2008 Posted October 16, 2008 If he's made to destroy tech, why doesn't he have Nullify (all tech)? It'd be a simple AP to have under Electrical Control, and Electrical Control is certainly something ancient gods could give.
eyeonthemountain Posted October 16, 2008 Author Posted October 16, 2008 That is one reason it is embaressing, the writeup that was ultimately approved is more than a few steps off what I envisioned. I am trying to tighten up his powers right now
eyeonthemountain Posted October 17, 2008 Author Posted October 17, 2008 Ok, I heavily edited the sheet on the first post. I have the feeling I am missing something , but I do not know what it is. Hopefully a ref can point it out. The points are adding up a little too easily. I do have a question about a touch range area cone mind blast. I read it as the cone must originate with me, but is the ensuing attack considered melee or ranged? I think it is melee, but I am not sure.
Dr Archeville Posted October 17, 2008 Posted October 17, 2008 Well, for starters, the Regeneration: since he has no Con score, the first rank in Recovery bonus gets you to -4. With 3 points in it, you've got a total Recovery modifier of -2. Technically there'd be no attack roll with the Area effect Mind Control, since it's an area thing. Also, your Electrical Control/"Blast" can't hurt most tech, since it's a Fort save thing. It can hurt cyborgs, and of course normal living beings, but not robots or even machines like cars or computers.
eyeonthemountain Posted October 17, 2008 Author Posted October 17, 2008 Yes, I know my recovery is awful low. I had to scrimp some points there, but at least he potentially can heal himself. Ok, I was not sure if the area was a targeted area or a real area. If it is a targeted area, then is it vs will, but as written now there is no attack, and the opponents simply make their save? Ok, I checked the rules and I need to make the blast affects objects. How would that work? I know I could just go with a toughness save, but I was looking for something a bit more effective. Would the affect objects extra work?
Dr Archeville Posted October 18, 2008 Posted October 18, 2008 Ok, I was not sure if the area was a targeted area or a real area. If it is a targeted area, then is it vs will, but as written now there is no attack, and the opponents simply make their save? Reflex save to see if they can avoid the brunt of it, then a Will save to resist the actual effect. Though the initial Ref save could be changed to a Will save, have the effect be a one-two punch. Ok, I checked the rules and I need to make the blast affects objects. How would that work? I know I could just go with a toughness save, but I was looking for something a bit more effective. Would the affect objects extra work? No, because damaging/harmful effect with Affects Objects (like Drain) don't give the object a save, they affect it fully automatically. However, you might could do a Linked Strike (Extra: Penetrating; Flaw: Limited to Objects Only), for a +1 Extra. So the one attack is either a Fort Save Strike against tech-using beings, or a Penetrating Strike against objects. But this still leaves robots and other constructs unaffected, as they are not Objects & are immune to Fort save effects. You could go with Corrosion instead (and have the Nullify be an AP of it, and don't call it Electrical Control), with a Flaw that it does not work on anything with no technology incorporated into it (so it'd affect robots, and cyborgs, or people using powered armor or other devices -- or the armor/device itself, if you target it specifically -- but not, say, a spellcaster or run-of-the-mill Mutant. Which jives with the whole "it was created to destroy tech" vibe. Speaking of, I'd like his history and background expanded a bit more. Does it have a mind of its own? Any desires or goals aside from "destroy tech"? If it did manage to destroy all tech on Earth, what then? Who/what are its masters/creators? Are they gods from a pantheon Freedom City's seen before (Egyptian, Greek, Norse, Voudoun), or something else entirely? Also, I'm somewhat uncomfortable on allowing Subtle 2 on his Insubstantial. There should be some way for someone to detect he's not really solid. You can go with the "anyone making a DC 20 Notice check" route, or the "only by people with Magical Awareness, but they can do so automatically" route.
eyeonthemountain Posted October 18, 2008 Author Posted October 18, 2008 Ok Changed the electrical back to a toughness save, to avoid the whole problem of fortitude saves, which weakens it a bit, but I can live with it. Added Secondary effect to bring the cost back up to 2/rank and keep the effect more effective. Added and AP for touch range toughness Drain on non-living things only. With these mods, he is a lot more effective against objects, as he should be. Changed the reflex save on the Mind Control area to will, so a double will save. Fair enough as the 5 point cost is awful cheap. So that means I need no attack roll to affect people, right? As for him, yes, he is fully intelligent, and has a mind of his own, but in many ways is not a full-fledged consciousness, not like humans are. At he moment he is freshly created, and is still much into his purpose. Later I think he will develop more, as his experiences change him. I see him a bit like an intelligent robot pre-programmed with information, but no real understanding, but intelligent and versatile enough to develop, probably in ways hat his creators did not envision ,or particularly want. I deliberately did not give him and kind of communication capable of speaking with those gods from before, though the GMs are free to have the gods initiate conversations. He is on his own, and his gods are not very sophisticated. I am going from the point of view that the gods reflect the cultures that brought them to life. Sanctis's gods are back from way before recorded history, back to the stone age, and before. They are primitive and simple, but still divine and have a lot of power. Mankind moved past these gods (at least most of the world) a few thousand years ago with cultivation and the beginnings of civilization. Now the whole world, except perhaps for a few very very isolated primitive tribesmen in Africa, small Asian islands or the Amazon Basin, have moved past these gods too. I hope that makes sense. I am not a huge fan of highly developed backstories, I prefer to make the characters in game.
Dr Archeville Posted October 19, 2008 Posted October 19, 2008 Ok Changed the electrical back to a toughness save, to avoid the whole problem of fortitude saves, which weakens it a bit, but I can live with it. Added Secondary effect to bring the cost back up to 2/rank and keep the effect more effective. Added and AP for touch range toughness Drain on non-living things only. With these mods, he is a lot more effective against objects, as he should be. You won't need Total Fade on it, since Objects are affected fully and don't regain Toughness until repaired. And the Nullify, as it is now, can't affect the powers of Robots or other Constructs. I believe it needs Affects Objects for that. Also, you do need to list the actual ranks in your powers. Changed the reflex save on the Mind Control area to will, so a double will save. Fair enough as the 5 point cost is awful cheap. So that means I need no attack roll to affect people, right? Correct: you activate the power, telling the Ref/GM where the Area is, targets make 2 Will saves. If they make the first one (DC 20), then the second save is a DC 15 to resist your control; if they fail the first once, the second save is DC 20 to resist your control. As for him, yes, he is fully intelligent, and has a mind of his own, but in many ways is not a full-fledged consciousness, not like humans are. At he moment he is freshly created, and is still much into his purpose. Later I think he will develop more, as his experiences change him. I see him a bit like an intelligent robot pre-programmed with information, but no real understanding, but intelligent and versatile enough to develop, probably in ways hat his creators did not envision ,or particularly want. I deliberately did not give him and kind of communication capable of speaking with those gods from before, though the GMs are free to have the gods initiate conversations. He is on his own, and his gods are not very sophisticated. I am going from the point of view that the gods reflect the cultures that brought them to life. Sanctis's gods are back from way before recorded history, back to the stone age, and before. They are primitive and simple, but still divine and have a lot of power. Mankind moved past these gods (at least most of the world) a few thousand years ago with cultivation and the beginnings of civilization. Now the whole world, except perhaps for a few very very isolated primitive tribesmen in Africa, small Asian islands or the Amazon Basin, have moved past these gods too. That's fine, though be aware that "gods reflect the culture that created them" may not be how gods actually work in he Freedom City setting I hope that makes sense. I am not a huge fan of highly developed backstories, I prefer to make the characters in game. Leaving some room open is fine, but too much -- "I've got this awesome character, he's got great stats! Background? Eh... he's an amnesiac!" -- is often a Bad Sign to GMs/Refs, one I myself have faced more times than I'd have liked. (Not that I'm saying that this is what you're doing.) What you've got here is more than what you had, which is good, but do be aware that, the less you give the GMs, the more they have to fill in... and you may not like what we fill in :twisted:
eyeonthemountain Posted October 20, 2008 Author Posted October 20, 2008 Since his first post is going to be him entering the world (i.e. being born) I kinda doubt the Refs can do much with his backstory... Ok, so I need to work on nullify a bit mroe than.. Ok, I can do that. As for the rest it looks like I am almost there... Editing now
eyeonthemountain Posted October 20, 2008 Author Posted October 20, 2008 Changes: Total Fade to Secondary Effect. Nullify Affects Objects added, Rank dropped to 6 Editing Done
Dr Archeville Posted October 20, 2008 Posted October 20, 2008 Since his first post is going to be him entering the world (i.e. being born) I kinda doubt the Refs can do much with his backstory... Oh, don't be so sure -- just because he's a "blank slate" doesn't mean the beings who made him are, or that there aren't other beings out there who are already making plans to (ab)use him. Or that he doesn't really have a past. :twisted: A few more questions on Stats: * Why does he have Permanent Insubstantial 2 (gaseous) and Protection? Most character with a Permanent Insubstantial form don't have any Protection. (No saying you can't have it, just wanting an explanation.) * On a similar not, if he's "made of shadowstuff," why isn't it Insubstantial 3 (energy/shadow)? * The "Alien Tech" thing: does it apply to, say, something produced by someone who has Enhanced Intelligence from an alien implant or magical enhancement? Or is the bloodline/'heritage' of the inventor the only factor? And in either case, why? Why aren't the Ancient Spirits of Anti-Tech concerned with extraterrestrial technology -- it can help humans as well as human-made tech. Also, please edit your powers so they conform to the template used on everyone else's sheet (rank next to name, Extras & Flaw & PFs listed separately, etc.).
eyeonthemountain Posted October 20, 2008 Author Posted October 20, 2008 * Why does he have Permanent Insubstantial 2 (gaseous) and Protection? Most character with a Permanent Insubstantial form don't have any Protection. (No saying you can't have it, just wanting an explanation.) Because he is not breakable. His form, even made up of gaslike particles, is very durable and tough, so it is not easily damaged by other's attacks. He has a permanent protection built into his form, thus protection. * On a similar not, if he's "made of shadowstuff," why isn't it Insubstantial 3 (energy/shadow)? Because a gas more closely portrays how I view him. * The "Alien Tech" thing: does it apply to, say, something produced by someone who has Enhanced Intelligence from an alien implant or magical enhancement? Or is the bloodline/'heritage' of the inventor the only factor? And in either case, why? Why aren't the Ancient Spirits of Anti-Tech concerned with extraterrestrial technology -- it can help humans as well as human-made tech. I think my definition is clear enough. If the creator is human, he can affect it, with several powers and skills, but if they are not, then he cannot. I don't want to complicate it how you are suggesting. The reason I did it that was is that those gods are human gods, and they have power over humans and their tools. Yes, I know it is a huge drawback I am giving him for only 4 drawback points, but that is how I am building him. That is one reason I did not put the human-only flaw/drawback on his mind control or other powers, though I considered it. I don't want him to be totally helpless against a non-human, though he will be ad a strong disadvantage. Also, please edit your powers so they conform to the template used on everyone else's sheet (rank next to name, Extras & Flaw & PFs listed separately, etc.). Ok, I'll get to that.
Dr Archeville Posted October 20, 2008 Posted October 20, 2008 * The "Alien Tech" thing: does it apply to, say, something produced by someone who has Enhanced Intelligence from an alien implant or magical enhancement? Or is the bloodline/'heritage' of the inventor the only factor? And in either case, why? Why aren't the Ancient Spirits of Anti-Tech concerned with extraterrestrial technology -- it can help humans as well as human-made tech. I think my definition is clear enough. If the creator is human, he can affect it, with several powers and skills, but if they are not, then he cannot. I don't want to complicate it how you are suggesting. The reason I did it that was is that those gods are human gods, and they have power over humans and their tools. Yes, I know it is a huge drawback I am giving him for only 4 drawback points, but that is how I am building him. That is one reason I did not put the human-only flaw/drawback on his mind control or other powers, though I considered it. I don't want him to be totally helpless against a non-human, though he will be ad a strong disadvantage. Well, there is a reason I ask: exactly how far does "human" go for this definition? The world of Freedom City, like Marvel's and DC's Earth, have numerous human-derived "sub-species". Do Atlanteans, Utopians, or Ultimans/Hyperboreans count as humans? Their ancestors were humans enhanced by the Preservers. If they do, then do Deep Ones -- Atlanteans corrupted by interbreeding with Serpent People -- also count as humans? Do the Lor -- who are descendants of humans taken from Earth tens of thousands of years ago by the Preservers -- count as human? They're virtually identical to humans in terms of appearance & biology, and can successfully breed with Terrans. Siren and Baron Samedi are technically humans, hosting a Voudoun loa. If a human hosted Chango or Oggun -- seen by some as the patron deities of Western science due to their wielding of enormous power with little regard to the consequence -- and they invented some piece of technology, would it count as human-made or not? Do Doctor Atom, the Cosmic Mind, or the Green Man -- who were all once human but have been permanently changed into non-human forms -- still count as human?
eyeonthemountain Posted October 21, 2008 Author Posted October 21, 2008 I have no idea. I have not heard of half of those sub-species you are talking about. I would say if they are descended from humans and stayed on this planet then, yes. But if they were taken into space and returned, then no. But I really do not care much either way. I could just drop the drawbacks and make the whole thing moot. I am trying for a simple weakness to Sanctis that a smart opponent can drive a truck through, but I do not want to get into too much detail with it. If it is going to be a big problem I can just drop the drawbacks and roleplay it, instead of having it hard-wired.
Dr Archeville Posted October 21, 2008 Posted October 21, 2008 It's not a big problem if we get these things defined now, during character creation. Atlanteans are descended from humans and lived on (surprise, surprise) Atlantis. They were modified by the Preservers (ancient & mysterious aliens) to be a bit hardier and able to survive underwater as well as humans do on dry land. The Utopians are the descendants of the Atlanteans who escaped doomed Atlantis, and made it to Utopia Isle. They lost their ability to survive underwater, but instead have longer lifespans. Utopians/Hyperboreans are like Marvel's Eternals: incredibly powerful human offshoots, empowered by the Preservers, living in a hidden land in the Antarctic. All three of these are descended from humans, and have never left Earth (at least, not as a race; individuals may have). So they'd count as humans. Deeps Ones have non-human (Serpent People) blood, so they would probably not count as humans. Lor are descended from humans, but were taken off-world long ago, and after reading a bit more in the FC campaign book it seems they've interbreeded with several other humanoid races, so they're not human (for your purposes). So that leaves the possessed folks, and folks who were human but now aren't. You'll need to decide on them, or drop the drawbacks entirely. If you do drop 'em, you can make up the point by taking a Vulnerability (to Magic, +100%/x2 to DC modifier; common, major, 4pp). Or take the Vulnerability at a lesser intensity, but add some other drawback, or reduce some power.
eyeonthemountain Posted October 21, 2008 Author Posted October 21, 2008 I'll just keep the drawbacks as they fit the character.
Dr Archeville Posted October 21, 2008 Posted October 21, 2008 Then you need to determine whether beings like Siren, Baron Samedi, Doctor Atom, the Cosmic Mind, and the Green Man count as "human" or not.
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