Cyberkinesis/Cyberpathy Builds & Questions

[Dr Archeville]

Protectron was originally built with a number of "cyberkientic" powers,basically psionic-ish powers (like illusion, mind control, and telepathy), but vs. machines. But how to actually go about statting that up? Datalink (with the Machine Control alternate effect) covers much of it -- talking to machines, as well as controlling standard (i.e., object) machines -- but not nearly all.

Q1: Datalink is Communication (radio). That means it can be used to broadcast radio (including wifi) transmissions, and thus used to shout at people on communicators, cell phones, their car radio or television, CBs, via Skype, and the like, right? In the case of television, would it be audio only, or audio + video?

Q2: How to do "seize control of the machine's mind"? Mind Control is intuitively the way to go, but that wouldn't get androids & 'bots with Immunity to Mental Effects, or 'bots with no Int (Int --- = immune to mental effects). Kenson has said, here, that Datalink itself can be used as an ersatz Mind Control vs. Int-less robotic constructs. (Though here, he later says either Mind Contorl or Datalink + Computers skill would work.)

Q3: Related to the above, but different enough to warrant it's own question, is the idea of controlling someone via their battlesuit's systems or cybernetic interfaces. Not Mind Control per se; examples are acts such as "locking a Power Corps member's arms so they can't raise them to blast me," or "telling their suit's boot-jets to not engage," or "have the suit move so they blast their teammates." Controlling their bionic implants, or the suit around them. Would Mind Control (Extra: Conscious [aware of but unable to stop what they're doing, can use non-cyborg/non-suited parts normally]; Flaw: Limited [battlesuit and cyborg systems]) be sufficient for this? (This would also be a fine descriptor for a number of effects, such as Paralysis.)

Q4: Concealment with the Limited to Machines Flaw. This makes the Concealment "Limited only to senses with a technological descriptor. This includes ordinary things like cameras and microphones as well as intelligent robots." Would this include someone looking at the concealed being through a battlesuit's sensors? Bionic eyes?

Q5: Illusion. UP lists the Phantasms flaw, making the Illusion a mental effect viewable/audible only to beings with an Int of 1+, so they don't show on cameras, microphones, and the like. (I'd assume this also means constructs with an Int of --- cannot see them, since Int --- = immune to mental effect, and Phantasms turns Illusion into a mental effect.) Would it be of an equal value to flip this Flaw, so that the Illusions are only detectable by microphones, cameras and the like (and constructs with an Int of ---), but not living beings with an int of 1+? (Though this gets into the problem of whether it affects a cyborg with bionic eyes and ears.)

Q6: Mind Reading. This could be used to "read the logs" of an Intelligent android, but what about a mindless robot (Int --- Construct) or a normal desktop? If you compare it to using Telepathy on someone, you'd need both Datalink to talk to it, and some type of Mind Reading to read "surface thoughts" and to do a "deep probe" (i.e., search for files). Or am I overthinking it, and it's all just Datalink + the Computers skill?

Q7: Transform (memories). This could be used to "add, edit, and delete files" from an intelligent android's mind, but what about mindless robots, or a regular desktop or iPod? Would that be another Datalink + computers skill thing?

Q8: "Trace Signal" -- tracking down a machine (object, mindless construct, of sapient 'bot) via its radio signals. Could some variant of Telelocation (itself a variant of ESP) be used for this? Or would that just be Super-Senses (radio) with the Extended, Rapid, and Tracking add-ons?

EDIT: And for the cases where a Computer skill check would be used, what would the DCs be? An opposed Computer skill check vs. the target's own Computer check or Will save?

(AvengerAssembled's Citizen and Electra's Miss Americana have similar abilities, and we have several others -- like Dragonfly and Ironclad, and Midnight and my namesake character via Gadgets -- with Datalink, so this thread should be useful for them, too.)

[Electra]

I don't have a lot of ideas, but I'm very interested to see what people can come up with. Gina's sheet as it's written doesn't capture all of what I want her to be able to do with computers. Even having more powers available for stunts would be very useful!

[Dr Archeville]

There is a difference of opinion on something.

DATALINK

Effect: Communication Action: Free (active)

Range: Extended Duration: Sustained

Saving Throw: None Cost: 1 point per rank

You can interface with computers over a distance. Choose a sensory medium, as with the Communication effect (see Communication in the previous chapter). Datalink is typically a mental or radio sense effect. Your power has a range of 10 feet at rank 1. Additional ranks increase your range on the Extended Range Table. To interface with an unfamiliar computer, you must be able to accurately sense it, or you must search for it (see Extended Searches, M&M, page 53). You can use the Computers skill on a computer while interfaced with it, taking the usual time. This power works as a Mental Communication effect on intelligent computers.

As written, I do not think Datalink itself is meant to give any ability to better carry out an extended search for an unfamiliar computer, since Datalink is just Communication. To use it on a computer that isn't right in front of you, you need to have found it via some other means (like a live video feed to it, or some other sort of ESP power).

Others (such as AA and Electra) do think Datalink alone is enough to be used to do Extended Searches for a computer.

If it can, would you need to buy separate Rapid feats to speed the search and speed the rate at which you 'upload data'? Or would one instance of the Rapid power feat let you both talk to and search for computers (and maybe mindless robotic constructs, or even sapient androids) 10x faster?

[N/A]

[...]

[Dr Archeville]

from Datalink's description in ULTIMATE POWER:

ALTERNATE EFFECTS

• Machine Control: In addition to digital devices, you can mentally control and operate machines. You can operate any machine in your range as if you were physically operating it or had a remote control for it, a Move Object effect at your power rank (Limited to only affecting machines). You make normal use of your various skills to operate machines, if necessary.

If one wanted to have Machine Control as a separate power, rather than as an AP of Datalink (so that both Datalink and Machine Control could be used on the same device at the same time, or Datalink on one and Machine Control simultaneously on another), how should that be built?

Move Object (Extra: Range [Perception]; Flaws: Limited [Objects only], Limited [only to operate machines]; PF: Precise)? (cost 1pp/rank, same as Datalink, +1pp for Precise)

If so, would you ever need more than a rank or two in that power? I'd think not, except for cases where you try to operate a rusted or otherwise gummed-up machine, and you'd need to use some elbow grease to get things going.

[Fox]

Their suggestion for Machine Control drives me absolutely insane, because every time I look at it I feel like I have a new and unanswered question about the limits of the power.

If it's built as Move Object - even +Precise - then that implies some weird and unintuitive limitations; mechanically it seems like you're either using Move Object to operate controls, or to exert force to actually move the working parts on the machine. The former means that Machine Control would only work on machines that have physical, attached controls (which doesn't seem right; that's not Machine Control, that's straight-up Telekinesis with a weird limit), and if the power's Range [Perception] implies that you'd have to be able to SEE those controls (which is even worse!). The latter means that you'd have to have the Move Object rank to physically move things on the machine, making relatively simple or automated actions (have a car drive itself forward, have a large press machine crush a robot) require very high ranks of the power - and meaning that there's no difference between the machine's strength and your own (that is, the machine just becomes a descriptor for how you used your mind to crush a robot; you could do the same damage with an industrial press or a workshop's automated tin can crusher, even though the two have wildly different limits).

I'm almost certainly overthinking things, but I just can't figure out how they intended this power to work, especially since the core book just had it listed as a power feat that was perhaps undercost, but far more clear (you can operate any machine within your Datalink range as if you were at the controls or had a remote).

[Dr Archeville]

Related question: would Datalink and/or Machine Control allow someone to use one of their own Devices if it were not in-hand?

Ex. 1: After seeing the fun Datalink parties all the other blonde, blue-eyed supergeniuses (Dragonfly & Miss Americana) are having, Doktor Archeville uses to give himself Datalink. Later, while attending a fundraising event, masked thugs break in and try to rob it. Could he use his Datalink to access the Electromagnetic Screwdriver in his pocket and Gadget up some Magnetic Control to remove their guns, while still keeping his hands up and behind his head?

Ex. 2: The Power Corp breaks into The Lab and tries to steal stuff, and finds Mara Hallomen working in her workshop. While the thieving mercenaries train their guns on the petite cyberkinetic, could she use her Datalink to have her Gauntlets (which are on the other side of their rooms) shoot these fools in the back?

On the one hand, this sounds like something the power could be used for. On the other, it also seems like a way to circumvent both paying for the Subtle or Indirect power feats, and the flaw in having an Easy or Hard to Lose Device (especially in cases where the Datalink's ranged is several thousand miles).

[Fox]

Huh. I don't know about 1, but something like 2 seems like a fair tradeoff, sorta - true, you basically get Indirect for free, but you've also essentially dropped your device from 'hard to lose' to 'hey, I'm over here, come pick me up'. Seems easy to abuse, though....

[Electra]

If you can access your device with Datalink, then it's both indirect and impossible to lose, right? That seems like it's circumventing a lot of the reasons we pay less for devices in the first place. Maybe if it were a special kind of datalink that's totally distracting, or something like that, just to try and make up for it.

[Dr Archeville]

If you've got Gina's range of Datalink (rank 10, anywhere on the planet and the satellites overhead and anything on the Moon), pretty much. (Though you'd still need to be able to accurately sense them, which gets back to the "does Datalink have a built-in ESP-like function that allows you to scan areas for systems?" thing.) If it's only a rank or two (10 or 100 feet), it'd still fairly easy to remove the Device from your range of influence.

Speaking of areas, Area on Datalink (which is basically Communication) would let you interface with any and all systems in the area (though you'd need the Selective power feat to interface with only some in an area). There's no problem in sending out the same message/command to every system (like having all computers open a word processing program and typing Ich bin der Meister und Sie wird befolgen mich in large, bold font), but what about sending different messages/commands to different systems in the area (ex.: sending different PMs to Bob, Carol, Ted and Alice)?

[Fox]

If you can access your device with Datalink, then it's both indirect and impossible to lose, right? That seems like it's circumventing a lot of the reasons we pay less for devices in the first place. Maybe if it were a special kind of datalink that's totally distracting, or something like that, just to try and make up for it.

On the other hand, common sense says there's a lot you can't do if you don't actually have the device. Powers with personal range, actually AIMING your attacks unless the device happens to be pointed in the right direction, any power that requires that you do something physical (e.g., reach into a dimensional pocket), and so on. You'd almost have to design your device for the purpose of using it remotely, which any sane GM is going to smack you for.

Speaking of areas, Area on Datalink (which is basically Communication) would let you interface with any and all systems in the area (though you'd need the Selective power feat to interface with only some in an area). There's no problem in sending out the same message/command to every system (like having all computers open a word processing program and typing Ich bin der Meister und Sie wird befolgen mich in large, bold font), but what about sending different messages/commands to different systems in the area (ex.: sending different PMs to Bob, Carol, Ted and Alice)?

...hmm. I'd say no - you'd have to do them in sequence, or with enough Quickness that they're functionally happening simultaneously. I may obviously be corrected, here, but all applications of +Area I can think of let you do a single thing applied to lots of targets - +Area Damage does a single type of attack, with the same modifiers and extras, to everything it hits.

[Dr Archeville]

Would the Area extra & Selective power feat (as described under the Communication power in UP) be viable for Datalink? If so, would that allow someone to act as a hub/switch for a LAN party, even for computers that don't have their own wi-fi?

[N/A]

Would the Area extra & Selective power feat (as described under the Communication power in UP) be viable for Datalink? If so, would that allow someone to act as a hub/switch for a LAN party, even for computers that don't have their own wi-fi?

I don't see why not.

[April]

It's how Sage's (networked) telepathy is built and flavored.

[Dr Archeville]

Datalink is (a cousin of) Communication (radio). (Well, it could be mental, but this question's dealing with radio).

Communication says "you can receive Communication of the same medium as your own."

Super-Senses 1 (radio) allows you to "'hear' radio frequencies including AM, FM, television, cellular, police bands, and so forth. This allows you to pick up on Radio Communication (see the Communication effect)."

If you have Communication (radio), it looks like you'd get Super-Senses (radio) for free. Does the same apply to Datalink (radio medium)? I think the answer is "sorta," for the reasons mentioned earlier:

I don't think that's what it means at all. I think it just means that Radio is the sensory medium it uses to connect your mind to the computer, which is important to know when Obscures/Dazzles/etc. come into play. I think you can use it to IM people (on computers or smartphones), talk with them through Skype, use an open text document as if it was an IM program, etc., but I think the scope of the power stops short of actually speaking into/through radios the way Radio Communication can. They are supposed to be two different powers, and Datalink can already do a lot of stuff that Radio Communication can't.

So with Datalink, but no Super-Senses (radio), you could listen to Skype conversations and read IMs as they're sent and listen to radio streaming on a station's website, but not the radio transmissions from the station's tower. Right?

(KENSON!!! )

[N/A]

[...]

[quotemyname]

Hey, I've been following this thread for a bit, and I'm finally going to chime in here. Part of my expansion project for Blueshift is that she's secretly (not really) a techno-savant. Her brain's so smart and fast due to mutations, and soon she might just be able to start talking to machines (like 'The Hoff') unaided by devices.

I'm thinking of, among other things, moving her Data-link power outside her devices (At least in steps because it won't be that powerful right away, and I won't have all the points up front). But other than that, what ideas would you guys suggests for some cooky stuff that allows her to talk to any technology, not just actual computers that have programs like Instant Messenger and Skype running? Maybe a tiny array to this effect?

[N/A]

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[quotemyname]

Nice! I like that plan! Now I just have to figure out how to get a few more pp... *looks at that vingette again*