[Question] Perfecting a Probability array

[MBCE]

Trying to fix The Ghost's probability array and wanted to see other people's thoughts.

What I want to fix is his Damage AP. To do that, it will take PFs to make it work teh way I envision it. What I want to know is will the following PFs cover the image that I have of the pwoer working.

The image:

I imagine his Damage AP to work in the form of various high unlikely accidents occuring to people.

-Slipping on a stone and bumping their heads against a wall.

-A bee stinging someone who is allergic to bees.

-A gun firing by mistake, hitting a friend.

These are just some examples of the types of incidents that may befall someone. Now, to keep things seeming as if they are random incidents, I've decided to place Indirect on the power so that they can happen from any direction. To limit the knowledge of the source of these incidents, I'm placing subtle on it as well.

So it would look like this.

-AP:Damage [Extras]

The question is, to simulate the variety of forms the damage comes from, would I need to tack on the Variable Descriptor PF as well. I would most likely put 2pps on this feat if it was needed to show the changes. If it is needed, then the power would look like this:

-AP:Damage [Extras]

Thoughts? Suggestions?

[MBCE]

Trying to fix The Ghost's probability array and wanted to see other people's thoughts.

What I want to fix is his Damage AP. To do that, it will take PFs to make it work teh way I envision it. What I want to know is will the following PFs cover the image that I have of the pwoer working.

The image:

I imagine his Damage AP to work in the form of various high unlikely accidents occuring to people.

-Slipping on a stone and bumping their heads against a wall.

-A bee stinging someone who is allergic to bees.

-A gun firing by mistake, hitting a friend.

These are just some examples of the types of incidents that may befall someone. Now, to keep things seeming as if they are random incidents, I've decided to place Indirect on the power so that they can happen from any direction. To limit the knowledge of the source of these incidents, I'm placing subtle on it as well.

So it would look like this.

-AP:Damage [Extras]

The question is, to simulate the variety of forms the damage comes from, would I need to tack on the Variable Descriptor PF as well. I would most likely put 2pps on this feat if it was needed to show the changes. If it is needed, then the power would look like this:

-AP:Damage [Extras]

Thoughts? Suggestions?

[Heridfel]

What you have there looks like a good start. I don't know what rank your Probability Control is currently at (and it doesn't really matter since you'll be increasing it as time goes on). With one rank of Subtle, you can be noticed as the cause of the effect with a DC 20 Notice check or a named, specialized Super-Sense. You're using the DC 20 Notice check unless you give an idea of what Super-Senses might figure it out. With two ranks of Subtle, you're totally undetectable.

I would not require the Variable Descriptor to change around the specific type of damage (but see below). Your constant descriptor is "unlikely accidents", and that seems like it should be sufficiently specific.

However, I haven't understood why the Damage effect is Penetrating. I know that's straight from Ultimate Power, but that portion never made sense to me. Controlling probability doesn't usually give the ability to damage people who are otherwise immune to lower amounts of damage. If you wanted to keep the Penetrating, I'd like the two-rank version of Variable Descriptor so that your character has more conscious control about the unlikely accident that he causes. Otherwise, the assumption is that he causes whatever unlikely accident is most likely to hit, not what is most likely to do damage.

Another option is to keep the amount of Penetrating down to a lower level. If you have a constant Penetrating 3 even as you increase the rank of the Damage effect, that makes more sense to me thematically. I think that Penetrating was chosen because Probability Control costs 4 pp/rank and Steve Kenson wanted the AP to have the same cost per rank. Perception Damage is only 3 pp/rank, and Penetrating was just the best fit.

[Heridfel]

What you have there looks like a good start. I don't know what rank your Probability Control is currently at (and it doesn't really matter since you'll be increasing it as time goes on). With one rank of Subtle, you can be noticed as the cause of the effect with a DC 20 Notice check or a named, specialized Super-Sense. You're using the DC 20 Notice check unless you give an idea of what Super-Senses might figure it out. With two ranks of Subtle, you're totally undetectable.

I would not require the Variable Descriptor to change around the specific type of damage (but see below). Your constant descriptor is "unlikely accidents", and that seems like it should be sufficiently specific.

However, I haven't understood why the Damage effect is Penetrating. I know that's straight from Ultimate Power, but that portion never made sense to me. Controlling probability doesn't usually give the ability to damage people who are otherwise immune to lower amounts of damage. If you wanted to keep the Penetrating, I'd like the two-rank version of Variable Descriptor so that your character has more conscious control about the unlikely accident that he causes. Otherwise, the assumption is that he causes whatever unlikely accident is most likely to hit, not what is most likely to do damage.

Another option is to keep the amount of Penetrating down to a lower level. If you have a constant Penetrating 3 even as you increase the rank of the Damage effect, that makes more sense to me thematically. I think that Penetrating was chosen because Probability Control costs 4 pp/rank and Steve Kenson wanted the AP to have the same cost per rank. Perception Damage is only 3 pp/rank, and Penetrating was just the best fit.

[Barnum]

However, I haven't understood why the Damage effect is Penetrating. I know that's straight from Ultimate Power, but that portion never made sense to me. Controlling probability doesn't usually give the ability to damage people who are otherwise immune to lower amounts of damage. If you wanted to keep the Penetrating, I'd like the two-rank version of Variable Descriptor so that your character has more conscious control about the unlikely accident that he causes. Otherwise, the assumption is that he causes whatever unlikely accident is most likely to hit, not what is most likely to do damage.

I had the same objection when we first had this conversation. I'm not even sure that Perception ranged damage makes sense to me in light of the descriptors. MBCE's answer didn't completely convince me, but it did make sense in a comicbooky sort of way.

It makes perfect sense I think. The damage is caused by the change in probability, where even the most unlikely of events can happen. If you limit your thinking to simply being hit by a car, then you're missing out on the creative posibilities of using the power. It's not just a car suddenly hitting you, its a car hitting hitting the small crack in Captain X's force field which was caused during his battle with the Doom squad the day before.

The whole discussion is HERE.

[Barnum]

However, I haven't understood why the Damage effect is Penetrating. I know that's straight from Ultimate Power, but that portion never made sense to me. Controlling probability doesn't usually give the ability to damage people who are otherwise immune to lower amounts of damage. If you wanted to keep the Penetrating, I'd like the two-rank version of Variable Descriptor so that your character has more conscious control about the unlikely accident that he causes. Otherwise, the assumption is that he causes whatever unlikely accident is most likely to hit, not what is most likely to do damage.

I had the same objection when we first had this conversation. I'm not even sure that Perception ranged damage makes sense to me in light of the descriptors. MBCE's answer didn't completely convince me, but it did make sense in a comicbooky sort of way.

It makes perfect sense I think. The damage is caused by the change in probability, where even the most unlikely of events can happen. If you limit your thinking to simply being hit by a car, then you're missing out on the creative posibilities of using the power. It's not just a car suddenly hitting you, its a car hitting hitting the small crack in Captain X's force field which was caused during his battle with the Doom squad the day before.

The whole discussion is HERE.

[Heridfel]

I did miss that part of the post back in that earlier thread. I'm still having trouble with it, since there's a limit to how much probability can stretch before it becomes impossibility, especially when the Probability Control base power is still at a relatively low rank. Sure, there is a finite non-zero chance that a bunch of electrons can move one way so that they become a lightning bolt in a cloudless sky. That doesn't mean that your power to manipulate probability is good enough to get them to do that. That would also go beyond the "unlikely accident" suggestion that was made earlier.

[Heridfel]

I did miss that part of the post back in that earlier thread. I'm still having trouble with it, since there's a limit to how much probability can stretch before it becomes impossibility, especially when the Probability Control base power is still at a relatively low rank. Sure, there is a finite non-zero chance that a bunch of electrons can move one way so that they become a lightning bolt in a cloudless sky. That doesn't mean that your power to manipulate probability is good enough to get them to do that. That would also go beyond the "unlikely accident" suggestion that was made earlier.

[Dr Archeville]

I'd actually made a character like this once, many moons ago.

At first his "make unlikely accident happen" thing was done as Blast (PFs: Indirect 3, Subtle, Variable Effect/any immediately local phenomenon). I kept it at regular range since he still had to 'target' a person, and his powers were still noticeable to those who had the means to notice mystical effects (hence only one rank of Subtle, not 2). The "immediately local phenomenon" was to show how he could, for example, make a steam pipe neat to someone burst and do heat damage, but if he wanted to fry someone with electricity, there'd either have to be a thunderstorm already raging or a similarly large source of electrical power.

Later I'd planned to increase the range to Perception, to show how he'd gotten better at controlling probability around a target; it was as easy for him to hit someone as it is for Xavier to hit someone with his mental blasts.

[Dr Archeville]

I'd actually made a character like this once, many moons ago.

At first his "make unlikely accident happen" thing was done as Blast (PFs: Indirect 3, Subtle, Variable Effect/any immediately local phenomenon). I kept it at regular range since he still had to 'target' a person, and his powers were still noticeable to those who had the means to notice mystical effects (hence only one rank of Subtle, not 2). The "immediately local phenomenon" was to show how he could, for example, make a steam pipe neat to someone burst and do heat damage, but if he wanted to fry someone with electricity, there'd either have to be a thunderstorm already raging or a similarly large source of electrical power.

Later I'd planned to increase the range to Perception, to show how he'd gotten better at controlling probability around a target; it was as easy for him to hit someone as it is for Xavier to hit someone with his mental blasts.

[MBCE]

Thanks for the feedback. I'll try and explain some of my own reasoning as addressing others.

What you have there looks like a good start. I don't know what rank your Probability Control is currently at (and it doesn't really matter since you'll be increasing it as time goes on). With one rank of Subtle, you can be noticed as the cause of the effect with a DC 20 Notice check or a named, specialized Super-Sense. You're using the DC 20 Notice check unless you give an idea of what Super-Senses might figure it out. With two ranks of Subtle, you're totally undetectable.

The one point of subtle, with the noticeable by detect Magic effects or Magic awareness would notice it as the whole power is magical in nature so there's little problems here.

However, I haven't understood why the Damage effect is Penetrating. I know that's straight from Ultimate Power, but that portion never made sense to me. Controlling probability doesn't usually give the ability to damage people who are otherwise immune to lower amounts of damage. If you wanted to keep the Penetrating, I'd like the two-rank version of Variable Descriptor so that your character has more conscious control about the unlikely accident that he causes. Otherwise, the assumption is that he causes whatever unlikely accident is most likely to hit, not what is most likely to do damage.

Another option is to keep the amount of Penetrating down to a lower level. If you have a constant Penetrating 3 even as you increase the rank of the Damage effect, that makes more sense to me thematically. I think that Penetrating was chosen because Probability Control costs 4 pp/rank and Steve Kenson wanted the AP to have the same cost per rank. Perception Damage is only 3 pp/rank, and Penetrating was just the best fit.

Hmmm, how to explain this. First off, I like the idea of a lower Penetrating ability as I'm starting to understand exactly what the extra does. You're most liekly correct that the designer simply added it to make the points add out and that it was the best choice. However, I can easily understand why in the UP at least, the power was given the Penentrating extra. I'll explain below.

I had the same objection when we first had this conversation. I'm not even sure that Perception ranged damage makes sense to me in light of the descriptors. MBCE's answer didn't completely convince me, but it did make sense in a comicbooky sort of way.

The whole discussion is HERE.

Okay. These two pooints are where opinions disagree. Let me address teh easier of the two first. Perception range.

The game is based on probability to begin with. There are two levels of protection that need to be addressed before damage can be checked. The first level is to hit the target. If this isn't done, the power has no chance of affecting someone. The second level of protection is personal meaning Imprevious. An attack needs to have a higher rank of the imprevious to have a chance of affecting the character. Once these two forms of protection are bypassed, then probability comes into play through dice rolls. The way to get through these two forms of protection is through A)Perception range and B)Penetrate.

PERCEPTION

Most attacks need to first hit the target before damage can affect it. Depending on the attack bonus, that level of probability ranges from 0% to 100%. Since this Damaging ability is in a Probability array, it changes the probability to hit a target. So it makes sure that anyone has the potential of being hurt by the power. Yes, that gives a lot of power, simply because perception range is so strong, but there's no reason why not to have the extra added on. "He precieves something, therefore it is subject to his power." If you could explain why other powers, such as Mental Blast, Magnetic Control, or even Fire Control are perception based powers instead of simply ranged, I'd like to hear it. The only reason I can see for any power to be perception based is to fit in the whole comic book feel into the game.

That's what I am trying to build with the power. A comic book flavor to the power. In the comics, probability control affected anyone they could preceive. Of course, I could drop the perception and make it an area effect which would get multiple targets all at once. It most likely cost the same but won't have the same feel as the first level of protection remains in place due to reflex saves.

PENETRATING

As for the penetrating extra, again it's changing the probability of an effect having an effect. Chances of a Damage 4 affecting Imprevious 8 is 0%. But if the power's main focus is changing that chance, then it works. There is now a chance that the effect will cause damage when there was none before. If the imprevious was higher, say 10 instead of 8, the damage 4 still would be unable to get passed the protection.

I can describe it a variety of different ways but the mechanics will remain the same. Whether by saying there's a crack in the armor that lets the damage through, or that it hits with unimaginable force, won't change much. For other powers with the penetrating extra, what descriptors are asked for when they are made? Do they do their extra force due to more power? Perhaps they do it because they act on a different wavelength that helps get through protections easily.

The question is would I need the Varible descriptor to simulate this as my damage effects are not set by simply saying it is always an anvil falling on the head.

[MBCE]

Thanks for the feedback. I'll try and explain some of my own reasoning as addressing others.

What you have there looks like a good start. I don't know what rank your Probability Control is currently at (and it doesn't really matter since you'll be increasing it as time goes on). With one rank of Subtle, you can be noticed as the cause of the effect with a DC 20 Notice check or a named, specialized Super-Sense. You're using the DC 20 Notice check unless you give an idea of what Super-Senses might figure it out. With two ranks of Subtle, you're totally undetectable.

The one point of subtle, with the noticeable by detect Magic effects or Magic awareness would notice it as the whole power is magical in nature so there's little problems here.

However, I haven't understood why the Damage effect is Penetrating. I know that's straight from Ultimate Power, but that portion never made sense to me. Controlling probability doesn't usually give the ability to damage people who are otherwise immune to lower amounts of damage. If you wanted to keep the Penetrating, I'd like the two-rank version of Variable Descriptor so that your character has more conscious control about the unlikely accident that he causes. Otherwise, the assumption is that he causes whatever unlikely accident is most likely to hit, not what is most likely to do damage.

Another option is to keep the amount of Penetrating down to a lower level. If you have a constant Penetrating 3 even as you increase the rank of the Damage effect, that makes more sense to me thematically. I think that Penetrating was chosen because Probability Control costs 4 pp/rank and Steve Kenson wanted the AP to have the same cost per rank. Perception Damage is only 3 pp/rank, and Penetrating was just the best fit.

Hmmm, how to explain this. First off, I like the idea of a lower Penetrating ability as I'm starting to understand exactly what the extra does. You're most liekly correct that the designer simply added it to make the points add out and that it was the best choice. However, I can easily understand why in the UP at least, the power was given the Penentrating extra. I'll explain below.

I had the same objection when we first had this conversation. I'm not even sure that Perception ranged damage makes sense to me in light of the descriptors. MBCE's answer didn't completely convince me, but it did make sense in a comicbooky sort of way.

The whole discussion is HERE.

Okay. These two pooints are where opinions disagree. Let me address teh easier of the two first. Perception range.

The game is based on probability to begin with. There are two levels of protection that need to be addressed before damage can be checked. The first level is to hit the target. If this isn't done, the power has no chance of affecting someone. The second level of protection is personal meaning Imprevious. An attack needs to have a higher rank of the imprevious to have a chance of affecting the character. Once these two forms of protection are bypassed, then probability comes into play through dice rolls. The way to get through these two forms of protection is through A)Perception range and B)Penetrate.

PERCEPTION

Most attacks need to first hit the target before damage can affect it. Depending on the attack bonus, that level of probability ranges from 0% to 100%. Since this Damaging ability is in a Probability array, it changes the probability to hit a target. So it makes sure that anyone has the potential of being hurt by the power. Yes, that gives a lot of power, simply because perception range is so strong, but there's no reason why not to have the extra added on. "He precieves something, therefore it is subject to his power." If you could explain why other powers, such as Mental Blast, Magnetic Control, or even Fire Control are perception based powers instead of simply ranged, I'd like to hear it. The only reason I can see for any power to be perception based is to fit in the whole comic book feel into the game.

That's what I am trying to build with the power. A comic book flavor to the power. In the comics, probability control affected anyone they could preceive. Of course, I could drop the perception and make it an area effect which would get multiple targets all at once. It most likely cost the same but won't have the same feel as the first level of protection remains in place due to reflex saves.

PENETRATING

As for the penetrating extra, again it's changing the probability of an effect having an effect. Chances of a Damage 4 affecting Imprevious 8 is 0%. But if the power's main focus is changing that chance, then it works. There is now a chance that the effect will cause damage when there was none before. If the imprevious was higher, say 10 instead of 8, the damage 4 still would be unable to get passed the protection.

I can describe it a variety of different ways but the mechanics will remain the same. Whether by saying there's a crack in the armor that lets the damage through, or that it hits with unimaginable force, won't change much. For other powers with the penetrating extra, what descriptors are asked for when they are made? Do they do their extra force due to more power? Perhaps they do it because they act on a different wavelength that helps get through protections easily.

The question is would I need the Varible descriptor to simulate this as my damage effects are not set by simply saying it is always an anvil falling on the head.

[MBCE]

I'd actually made a character like this once, many moons ago.

At first his "make unlikely accident happen" thing was done as Blast (PFs: Indirect 3, Subtle, Variable Effect/any immediately local phenomenon). I kept it at regular range since he still had to 'target' a person, and his powers were still noticeable to those who had the means to notice mystical effects (hence only one rank of Subtle, not 2). The "immediately local phenomenon" was to show how he could, for example, make a steam pipe neat to someone burst and do heat damage, but if he wanted to fry someone with electricity, there'd either have to be a thunderstorm already raging or a similarly large source of electrical power.

Later I'd planned to increase the range to Perception, to show how he'd gotten better at controlling probability around a target; it was as easy for him to hit someone as it is for Xavier to hit someone with his mental blasts.

I like how you built this. The descriptor part is perhaps the area where I have yet to truely understand the game mechanics part of the game. I can envision what I want, but how to explain that in a few words that the GM will understand and accept?

When making the character, I didn'T put much into the descriptors of the power and I'm now realizing how wrong that was. Without the details, the game really suffers. It's why I'm so surprised that people can whip up characters as quickly as they can. Mostly it's just my unfamiliarity of the game mechanics, but then I wonder if everyone has really thought about the descriptors of their powers.

Your descriptor on any local phenomenon sounds very close to what I envision. Perhaps it is what I envision but I'm reluctant to use the word "local" as that limits you by a lot. I had the idea that perhaps the damage came from different sources that might have occured days, weeks ago.

In the case of your pipe bursting, it would be explained that ice had weakened the pipe that caused it to burst just at that moment. In the case of a bee sting, it would be just the chance that the player had an allergic reaction to bees and one just happened to be around. A gust of wind pushes a door open to knock a character off balance, who hits their head on a table. Maybe perhaps a stray bolt of electric power, shot from a hero/villian two blocks away hit causing damage. A bullet shot in the air finally coming down to hit someone a mile away. Would these fit a local phenomenon?

[MBCE]

I'd actually made a character like this once, many moons ago.

At first his "make unlikely accident happen" thing was done as Blast (PFs: Indirect 3, Subtle, Variable Effect/any immediately local phenomenon). I kept it at regular range since he still had to 'target' a person, and his powers were still noticeable to those who had the means to notice mystical effects (hence only one rank of Subtle, not 2). The "immediately local phenomenon" was to show how he could, for example, make a steam pipe neat to someone burst and do heat damage, but if he wanted to fry someone with electricity, there'd either have to be a thunderstorm already raging or a similarly large source of electrical power.

Later I'd planned to increase the range to Perception, to show how he'd gotten better at controlling probability around a target; it was as easy for him to hit someone as it is for Xavier to hit someone with his mental blasts.

I like how you built this. The descriptor part is perhaps the area where I have yet to truely understand the game mechanics part of the game. I can envision what I want, but how to explain that in a few words that the GM will understand and accept?

When making the character, I didn'T put much into the descriptors of the power and I'm now realizing how wrong that was. Without the details, the game really suffers. It's why I'm so surprised that people can whip up characters as quickly as they can. Mostly it's just my unfamiliarity of the game mechanics, but then I wonder if everyone has really thought about the descriptors of their powers.

Your descriptor on any local phenomenon sounds very close to what I envision. Perhaps it is what I envision but I'm reluctant to use the word "local" as that limits you by a lot. I had the idea that perhaps the damage came from different sources that might have occured days, weeks ago.

In the case of your pipe bursting, it would be explained that ice had weakened the pipe that caused it to burst just at that moment. In the case of a bee sting, it would be just the chance that the player had an allergic reaction to bees and one just happened to be around. A gust of wind pushes a door open to knock a character off balance, who hits their head on a table. Maybe perhaps a stray bolt of electric power, shot from a hero/villian two blocks away hit causing damage. A bullet shot in the air finally coming down to hit someone a mile away. Would these fit a local phenomenon?

[Barnum]

If you could explain why other powers, such as Mental Blast, Magnetic Control, or even Fire Control are perception based powers instead of simply ranged, I'd like to hear it. The only reason I can see for any power to be perception based is to fit in the whole comic book feel into the game.

An attack power is perception ranged primarily for one reason . . . because it cannot be, by descriptor or by design, dodged. Every time you describe one of the "freak of probability accidents" that make up your damage effect, I think to myself, "Someone who was quick enough could dodge that."

But hey, it's a legal build; you don't have to convince me that it "works." I approved a "super sniper" that had a rifle (device) with perception blast. He was just so good he never missed. Truth be told, he just figured out that perception was better than ranged and had the power points to spend making his character more powerful. I have nothing against that. Quite the contrary.

And Heridfel and you are completely right about Penetrating. Penetrating should have never been an extra to begin with, because it is *never* necessary to buy the full +1 of Penetrating. In my opinion, it should have been a ranked power feat, since usually only 1 or 2 ranks of Penetrating are ever required to get the full effect (especially since any descent build has power attack already).

Just my $0.02.

The question is would I need the Varible descriptor to simulate this as my damage effects are not set by simply saying it is always an anvil falling on the head.

I wouldn't think so in most cases, but if you (as opposed to the GM) wanted to be able to determine the exact nature of the accident (e.g. bursting a gas main next to an opponent that you knew was vulnerable to fire, thus giving your attack the fire descriptor), then I'd say yes.

[Barnum]

If you could explain why other powers, such as Mental Blast, Magnetic Control, or even Fire Control are perception based powers instead of simply ranged, I'd like to hear it. The only reason I can see for any power to be perception based is to fit in the whole comic book feel into the game.

An attack power is perception ranged primarily for one reason . . . because it cannot be, by descriptor or by design, dodged. Every time you describe one of the "freak of probability accidents" that make up your damage effect, I think to myself, "Someone who was quick enough could dodge that."

But hey, it's a legal build; you don't have to convince me that it "works." I approved a "super sniper" that had a rifle (device) with perception blast. He was just so good he never missed. Truth be told, he just figured out that perception was better than ranged and had the power points to spend making his character more powerful. I have nothing against that. Quite the contrary.

And Heridfel and you are completely right about Penetrating. Penetrating should have never been an extra to begin with, because it is *never* necessary to buy the full +1 of Penetrating. In my opinion, it should have been a ranked power feat, since usually only 1 or 2 ranks of Penetrating are ever required to get the full effect (especially since any descent build has power attack already).

Just my $0.02.

The question is would I need the Varible descriptor to simulate this as my damage effects are not set by simply saying it is always an anvil falling on the head.

I wouldn't think so in most cases, but if you (as opposed to the GM) wanted to be able to determine the exact nature of the accident (e.g. bursting a gas main next to an opponent that you knew was vulnerable to fire, thus giving your attack the fire descriptor), then I'd say yes.

[MBCE]

I wouldn't think so in most cases, but if you (as opposed to the GM) wanted to be able to determine the exact nature of the accident (e.g. bursting a gas main next to an opponent that you knew was vulnerable to fire, thus giving your attack the fire descriptor), then I'd say yes.

Thanks again for the feedback. I think I'll go with the Variable descriptor at 2 pts then. The way this forum is made up, a lot of those decisions are going ot naturally fall tome anyway. Taking the feat makes usre everythign stays above board.

As for the penetrating extra, I agree with you. As a power feat, it works so much better, but actually, most powers are going to need at least 5 to have a steady chance of affecting people. Imprevious is just too cheap.

[MBCE]

I wouldn't think so in most cases, but if you (as opposed to the GM) wanted to be able to determine the exact nature of the accident (e.g. bursting a gas main next to an opponent that you knew was vulnerable to fire, thus giving your attack the fire descriptor), then I'd say yes.

Thanks again for the feedback. I think I'll go with the Variable descriptor at 2 pts then. The way this forum is made up, a lot of those decisions are going ot naturally fall tome anyway. Taking the feat makes usre everythign stays above board.

As for the penetrating extra, I agree with you. As a power feat, it works so much better, but actually, most powers are going to need at least 5 to have a steady chance of affecting people. Imprevious is just too cheap.

[Barnum]

Thanks again for the feedback.

You're welcome. :)

[Barnum]

Thanks again for the feedback.

You're welcome. :)