More questions regarding ESP/Telelocation

[Folkert]

Hi everyone!

For my PL 6 Hero I'm looking at someone who is adept at "just finding things". With Telelocation 6 I could locate people at a range of up to 20 miles, but I'd like to do this at at an even greater distance, if possible.

The only way to do that seems to me using the Boost power on Telelocation, probably with the Total Fade extra, to go over the PL.

Would this be possible?

Related to this: What would an object-searching equivalent power of Telelocation look like?

Thanks!

[Dr Archeville]

Using a non-extra'd Boost to amp up the rank of Telelocation would be allowed....

... BUT, keep in mind that you still have to take time to make an extended search of the area, so unless you've got Mental Quickness to make the search go a lot quicker, the Boost isn't going to be of much help. Searching a 20-mile area (Telelocation 6) takes a full day; a 2,000 mile (Telelocation 8) search takes a full month.

[Barnum]

Boost would work. You could exceed PL by up to +2 with it. If the Boost only affected the Telelocation, I would not object to the Total Fade extra (though we haven't approved that extra yet that I can remember). You can, however, get the same +2 bump simply by using Extra Effort. That may be a more cost-efficient method.

The object version of Telelocation looks like flawed ESP.

Telelocation seems to be something close to:

ESP (mental) X [Extras]

So . . . I'd say an object only version would cost the same (1 PP/Rank), something like:

ESP (mental) X [Extras]

[Folkert]

Using a non-extra'd Boost to amp up the rank of Telelocation would be allowed....

Without the Total Fade extra this would give me the +2 above PL boost for about 3 seconds, right? (One Move action after activating the boost, at the end of which the boost loses 1 point and therefore the +2 Benefit, going down to +1.)

That doesn't seem like it would do much good unless I pump an enormous amount of points into Quickness. I'll have to think a bit if that's worth it.

... BUT, keep in mind that you still have to take time to make an extended search of the area, so unless you've got Mental Quickness to make the search go a lot quicker, the Boost isn't going to be of much help. Searching a 20-mile area (Telelocation 6) takes a full day; a 2,000 mile (Telelocation 8) search takes a full month.

Yup, I became painfully aware of that after actually checking the Extended Search rules. :(

[Folkert]

Thanks for the replies, Dr. A and Barnum!

Boost would work. You could exceed PL by up to +2 with it. If the Boost only affected the Telelocation, I would not object to the Total Fade extra (though we haven't approved that extra yet that I can remember). You can, however, get the same +2 bump simply by using Extra Effort. That may be a more cost-efficient method.

The Boost would certainly be Telelocation-specific, as I'm simply interested in getting more range out of the TL power, nothing else.

Extra effort would work, too, of course, but would also limit the time available for working with the improved TL to one full round vs. 3 1/2 rounds via Boost with Total Fade. Besides, it'd also chew up one of the precious few HP (being fatigued wouldn't always be the best option) so I'd like to leave that as the last option.

The object version of Telelocation looks like flawed ESP.

Telelocation seems to be something close to:

ESP (mental) X [Extras]

So . . . I'd say an object only version would cost the same (1 PP/Rank), something like:

ESP (mental) X [Extras]

Thanks for disassembling the Telelocation power!

Looking at the base ESP I am wondering if I shouldn't build her "finding power" as

ESP (mental) X [Extras]

at 2 power points per rank (in fact 3 per rank, since I will want to make it sustained) which should let her find what she is searching for without needing to 'switch' between objects and people.

[Folkert]

Still wrangling with the finer points of this.

ESP lets me "displace one or more of your senses over a distance, perceiving as if you were at that location".

So if I displaced my 'mental sense' how exactly would that work and what would/could I sense?

Thanks!

[Barnum]

ESP lets me "displace one or more of your senses over a distance, perceiving as if you were at that location".

So if I displaced my 'mental sense' how exactly would that work and what would/could I sense?

You'd have to already have a mental sense of some type (like Detect). Telelocation apparently already comes with the Detect built in. In the same way you could have ESP (Touch) and displace your Tremorsense.

[Folkert]

Ah, okay. Thanks!

So, if I had something like 'Detect:Minds' and used ESP to displace that via an extended search (with enough ranks of quickness to finish the search in a single round), it would work like some sort of 'mental radar' up to the distance as per extended range table. Correct?

[Barnum]

Yes. It would tell you exactly what the normal detect would tell you, just over the extended, displaced distance.

[Folkert]

Thanks.

A question regarding Telelocation then: "You can mentally “search†an area for an intelligent (Int 1+) creature." Does this mean I could search only for one specific individual?

And if so, what kind of 'Detect x' would that be if I wanted to achieve the same via ESP?

[Barnum]

I'd guess that it is something like . . .

Detect (Minds) [Mental, Acute, Accurate]

[Folkert]

Thanks again.

I wonder if I could flaw that so that I only perceive the specific person I'm searching for?

[Barnum]

I think something like, "Can only be used to detect 1 mind at a time (per Notice check)" would qualify as a -1 Flaw. That would cut the cost from 4 PPs to 2.

[Folkert]

Cool, but will that be the mind I'm searching for?

Reason: I envision this as some sort 'ultimate finding power'. So if the the Senator's daughter Claire gets abducted the PC can use her power to locate Claire, but it really shouldn't reveal that there are 30 goons hidden in the room next to her, waiting for any would-be rescuers.

[Barnum]

Cool, but will that be the mind I'm searching for?

Obviously.

[Folkert]

Then I feel reassured. :)

[Dr Archeville]

I would actually disagree on that. "Detect Mind (Flaw: Only the Mind I'm searching for)" seems to me sorta like "Blast (Flaw: Only the person I want to damage)".

Wouldn't a Tracking mental sense be more appropriate?

[Barnum]

I would actually disagree on that. "Detect Mind (Flaw: Only the Mind I'm searching for)" seems to me sorta like "Blast (Flaw: Only the person I want to damage)".

I agree. Which is exactly why I said . . .

I think something like, "Can only be used to detect 1 mind at a time (per Notice check)" would qualify as a -1 Flaw. That would cut the cost from 4 PPs to 2.

That's a lot more like limiting your sight or hearing to only seeing or hearing one person at a time. I think that is a significant limitation.

Wouldn't a Tracking mental sense be more appropriate?

I think that would work too. You would still need to buy the mental sense and the ESP, of course. And with the Quickness he is talking about buying for the extended searches, I'm not sure what advantage it would give you.

[Dr Archeville]

I agree. Which is exactly why I said . . .

That's a lot more like limiting your sight or hearing to only seeing or hearing one person at a time. I think that is a significant limitation.

Ah, if my brain wasn't so crammed with useless foreign language, I would've spotted that

I think that would work too. You would still need to buy the mental sense and the ESP, of course. And with the Quickness he is talking about buying for the extended searches, I'm not sure what advantage it would give you.

You could use the ESP/Telelocation to find the "mental tracks" (which might be easier than using it to find the person), then use the Mental Tracking to track the 'mental trail' back to the person.

[Folkert]

There and back again!

Sorry, I thought I was good with this, but while working on a Cosmic Awareness that is truly cosmic in scope, it occured to me that 'Extended x' might work here, too, and actually keep it a bit simpler.

So far I have:

ESP 10 [mental; PF: Subtle 2; Extra: Duration +1 (Sustained), No Conduit +1, Simultaneous +1; Flaw: Action -2 (Full-round Action); 22 PP]

Enhanced Skill 4 [search +16; 4 PP]

Quickness 18 [Flaw]

Supersenses 10 [Detect Minds (mental), accurate, acute, analytical; Flaw: Limited -1 (Can only be used to detect 1 mind at a time (per Notice check) ); Detect Objects (mental), accurate, acute, analytical; Flaw: Limited -1 (Can only be used to detect 1 object at a time (per Notice check) ); 5 PP]

= 37 PP

Couldn't I also go with ... ?

Supersenses 30 [Detect Minds (mental), accurate, acute, analytical, extended 10; Flaw: Limited -1 (Can only be used to detect 1 mind at a time (per Notice check) ); Detect Objects (mental), accurate, acute, analytical, extended 10; Flaw: Limited -1 (Can only be used to detect 1 object at a time (per Notice check) ); 15 PP]

Enhanced Skill 4 [search +16; 4 PP]

Quickness 18 [Flaw]

= 25 PP

[Heridfel]

Well, first, your ESP in version one needs to note which senses can be displaced. It looks like it's a 1 pp/rank version, which means that it's some non-visual sense only.

The second version would not be able to detect through things, so any objects would block minds from being seen (and vice versa, if you had a really big mind somewhere). It also requires you to be looking in the same direction as the thing you are looking at, which could be inconvenient if you're trying to do something where your body is.

[Folkert]

Thanks for the quick reply!

Well, first, your ESP in version one needs to note which senses can be displaced. It looks like it's a 1 pp/rank version, which means that it's some non-visual sense only.

Sorry, will correct that in the final version. I thought is was clear enough with "ESP 10 [mental [...] ]". It's indeed the 1 pp/rank version and displaces the 'mental' sense type (and thus only the two Detect powers).

The second version would not be able to detect through things, so any objects would block minds from being seen (and vice versa, if you had a really big mind somewhere). It also requires you to be looking in the same direction as the thing you are looking at, which could be inconvenient if you're trying to do something where your body is.

Errk, embarrassing oversight that - 'Radius' is really required.

'Penetrates Concealment' should take care of the blocking problem, for a grand total of 30 pp then.

Supersenses 40 [Detect Minds (mental), accurate, acute, analytical, extended 10, radius, penetrates concealment; Flaw: Limited -1 (Can only be used to detect 1 mind at a time (per Notice check) ); Detect Objects (mental), accurate, acute, analytical, extended 10, radius, penetrates concealment; Flaw: Limited -1 (Can only be used to detect 1 object at a time (per Notice check) ); 20 PP]

Enhanced Skill 4 [search +16; 4 PP]

Quickness 18 [Flaw]

[Dr Archeville]

How would a mental sense detect objects work? How do you track the mental signature of a briefcase?

[Folkert]

Probably the same "mysterious" way the mental sense Spatial Awareness can detect objects in one's surroundings. Along that line she's simply "mentally aware" of the particular object she is searching for. So, yes, it must have some sort of signature she can latch onto. That'means she can't go looking for just "my briefcase" - she needs a extremely detailed description, photo/vid at least or to examine it's former surroundinds.