ic With One Voice (IC, Open)

[Blarghy]

Tristan needed a moment to think on both those examples; the main tidbit that bobbed up through his memory were the daka crystals, which he'd never had the opportunity to study, much though he'd like to.  "Hopefully everyone would benefit.  I'm all for the exchange of ideas; historically, groups and nations that isolated themselves didn't fare well for it.  I still think humanity excels best when we work together; my hope for the future is just that we'll be able to think more independently, to avoid the kinds of class problems we've seen throughout our history.  My ideal scenario would be equals collaborating for the benefit of all, but without falling victim to any kind of mob mentality.  I wouldn't say that I foresee an end to traditional power structures, but it'd certainly be nice.  The problem with factions is that while they bring certain people together, they can do so at the expense of separating those people from everyone outside the group.  Stagnation and isolationism become serious problems if such an arrangement is long-term."

[olopi]

Cass looked around a bit, scanning the area. This was more of a general reaction that had started to happen more and more ever since he’d started being Bonfire, but nevertheless was quite noticeable to him and those around him. Then, he continued talking, even though he wasn’t quite sure what to say.

 

“You’ll have to excuse me, I am not well-versed in international politics or their influence on our daily lives, I doubt I can reliably answer your question about Dakana and New Freedom.”

 

He looked at the man who was now talking, and once again felt like the least intelligent person in the room. Which probably wasn’t that far off, but hey, the others didn’t have an alternate identity that spent most of his time saving lives and fighting crime!

 

“I agree, I also believe that humanity works best when exchanging ideas and cooperating. I’m not quite sure on your opinion on factions, since there is definitely space for them to work towards not separating themselves from others, but like the mob mentality you mentioned, it is much easier for everybody involved to not pursue it, and for everything to remain as it is. I’m not quite sure how much isolation is even possible anymore in times like these however, most of what we do in our daily lives immediately makes us connected to those around us, and avoiding this would come at the cost of most of the luxuries of the modern life.”

 

Edited April 14, 2016 by olopi

[angrydurf]

Mike had been sitting studying for an upcoming developmental psych test when the conversations out front began.  He'd only been half paying attention his nose in his book but the swing in topics attracted his attention his sensitive hearing picking of the rise and fall of the conversation.  It had of course taken him a minute to gather his books and return the cold half cup of hot cocoa to the dirty bin before he approached the table and looked over the small gathering discussing Humanities many feats and failings.  "Historically those who benefit most from the opening of borders are those who choose to open them."  He offered easily for their consideration, "Should Dakana open itself to exports of its technologies they and thier chosen partners would grow wealthy, were a nation to manage to force open the borders of New Freedom the benefits would first flow to the nation in question."

 

He paused and held out a hand, "Mike Harris."  he introduced himself confidently, "I'm a student so perhaps not so expert as others but I think there is more to the question really."  he paused and looked to his left and right at the others, "We achieve most when we strive to overcome those baser urges to put our fellow man ahead of ourselves not thinking of the benefits for ourselves or humanity at large but simply doing our best every day to do what we can for each other."  Naive? perhaps.  But heartfelt to be sure.

[EternalPhoenix]

Ah, so she’d helped the conversation go off on a far tangent. “My apologies. I’m a woman of strong opinions and, it seems, not nearly as strong of an ability to keep them to myself.” Samantha let out a rueful laugh. “It is actually my fondest hope that we outgrow through technology our need for exceptionals. It isn’t that I don’t appreciate their sacrifices. It ties back to something I mentioned earlier. There is no training program, or any real qualification to put on a mask and go save the day. I don’t consider that a positive trait. Many exceptionals are dangerously reckless, and many have an alarming lack of fine control over their powers. The benefits of a compulsory basic combat training program alone…however I digress. The primary benefit of becoming less reliant on exceptionals through technology is that human element, as well intentioned as it may be, will always be unpredictable. Technology, once the bugs are worked out, simply isn’t.”

 

With that said, she attended to her two children, who were growing a bit grumpy. “I do, however, adamantly oppose exceptionals in positions of political leadership, for the exact same reason the American Founding Fathers installed a civilian commander in chief of the army. Exceptionals do many, many things. However, predominantly they fight. It is their defining quality. It is all too easy for someone who uses violence as their primary problem solving method to fall back into using it when it is far less appropriate. Even now, there are three countries I can name that are ruled with a iron fist by an exceptional, who does not hesitate to bring down the metaphorical wrath of god on whoever defies them.” She held up a hand to forestall argument. “Yes, I know. There are very good and noble people among the exceptionals, who no one could ever imagine going rogue in such a way. However, I will remind you that few people ever thought that Doctor Archville would crack, either. And that history tells us that very good and noble people will dragged innocent people out of their homes to be murdered, if the circumstances are right.”

 

She took a breath and let it out. “The pressures on political leaders are enormous. You never know who will crack. You never know what will make someone crack. You never know when someone could crack. So you’ll forgive me if I’d prefer to have leaders who are incapable of destroying a building or fighting off a squad of ninjas all by themselves. It makes them easier to remove if that ever proves necessary.” She smiled. “To make a long story short, I agree with number one’s reasoning on both topics.”

 

“As for that last bit. No, competition is never going to go away. It’s bred into us at the genetic level. Resources will never be infinite, therefore someone will always want more than their neighbor. Even if the only reason is pride. You should see some of the things done on this planet for the sake of one person’s pride. Or simple greed, for that matter.”

Edited April 27, 2016 by EternalPhoenix

[Ari]

Sausage-thick fingers darting away at the illusory keys, Dol-Druth had started to turn to #3 to ask something when the powerfully-built new arrival sat down with them and shared his views. Blinking in surprise Another! And is that...? No, your imagination the ambassador collected himself and smoothly discorporated another holographic page with the same questions as he'd given the other three, sliding it over to this 'Mike Harris'. 

 

"Thank you for joining us, and if it is all the same to you, Sri Harris I will omit your name from the poll. Please take your time with the preliminary, though I do have one question: you say that Dakana Africanis would benefit more from more trade, while I understand its wealth and power comes from tight-fisted monopoly over a certain valuable mineral uncommon to this planet. Is there more to this than I am aware? What would be an example of how they would benefit from more contact?"

 

As he spoke, the white-skinned alien was still tapping away, noting the points of disagreemtn radiating from a central base assumption. The general consensus was a reassuring shift, at least. Aloud, his antennae twitching at each of the Earthlins in turn, the Dotrae asked "So the best hope is that the like-minded cooperate with each other, while allowing for differences and alternative views. Does this mean that, in some respect, the criminal use of exceptional abilities must be allowed for? Even accepted as a price of that tolerance and leeway? If not, what steps would be acceptable for curtailing it? Will the expected increase in exceptional population help or hinder such processes?"  

Edited April 28, 2016 by Ari

[olopi]

Now this was an interesting question. Cass would have to watch out and not accidentally out himself as a superhero himself, but being one obviously meant he had quite the opinion on this. And some of the people around this table would probably disagree, seeing the situation from another point.

 

“Well, I’m not sure it has to be allowed, from a legal standpoint at the very least. We have to accept the fact there are villains as a society, yes, but I think the law should still forbid criminal use. Allow me to explain. We’ll never be able to fully stop super-powered crime.

 

For everybody deciding they can use their powers for good, there’s somebody else. Maybe they’re down on their luck. Maybe they seriously need money. Maybe they lost somebody close to them and blame heroes, the government, society, anybody really. There’s a fine line between hero and villain. So long as they don’t turn to widespread murder the situation should remain fine. There will always be evil people, and there will be those to stop them. Some will change sides, some will stop. A hero without villains just is a flash public service worker. A villain without heroes is a massive threat.

 

 The best thing a government can really do is not to interfere in something beyond their power, but increase the quality of life. That by itself could hopefully go a long way when it comes to reducing crime, more than regulations upon regulations, only antagonizing some heroes further and pushing them away. There will always be criminals, but maybe we can work to reduce their numbers.”

 

 

 

Edited April 29, 2016 by olopi

[angrydurf]

Rolling broad shoulders if a slow shrug Mike agreed.  He wasn't really averse to attaching his name to the discussion but the aliens methodology was not particularly his concern.  The directed question earned a thoughtful pause from the tall youth before he further explained, "Well Dakana is not truly closed off, they trade, they engage diplomatically."  he offered frankly, "This has increased their wealth and power on the international level as they have resources the world desires and technologies that find market abroad."  he elaborated and continued with the understanding of global economics hard won by a quarter of topical coursework in an elective.  "They hold the power to control how much and when such bounties are released and thus control the supply in full, a monopoly that grants them economic power."  he stated flatly, "Further opening on their own terms would serve only to expand that influence."  he said plainly and looked to the other humans gathered, "Like OPEC, with such control of oil supplies."  he offered for comparison.  "On the other hand if forced by an outside power you have a situation more in keeping with colonial india or meiji Japan."  Mike offered with a nod, "Those nations that open the markets through force are then able to harness the benefits rather than the opened nation itself."  he paused and considered once more the question as it applied to the collectivist ideologies espoused earlier, "Now such expansion in available technology and resources eventually lead to overall improvements in the average citizen's quality of life certainly, however the distribution of finite resources requires some mechanism."  he shrugged once more, "Markets are the prevalent form and to change that quickly one would have to weigh the costs of such drastic social upheaval vs. the benefits of a perhaps more equitable sharing, though without a truly collective intelligence managing the distribution potential for abuse is high as in state controlled economies like China or the old soviet model."

 

Mike shook his head finally however and realized he too was sidetracked from the real discussion.  "People far brighter than me have been debating these ideals for centuries and reached no meaningful conclusions."  he pointed out and smiled at the other humans as he listened to their input on the matter of the exceptionals as they had been dubbed.  "The flaw in your thinking is the assumption that exceptionals are somehow other than human."  he argued carefully, "I mean other than the ones who are of course."  as there were a fair share of aliens, extra-dimensional entities, robots, and more esoteric forms of sentience that certainly qualified.  "It's not what a person can do it's what they actually do."  he stated firmly.   "A person driven by circumstance or nature to crime or any immorality really is going to do so regardless of their personal capabilities."  he looked to the alien hoping he understood, "Likewise a person with the will to do good will find a way to do so, won't be able to do otherwise really, in keeping with their own abilities."  pausing once more he gathered his thoughts, "Exceptionals may get more attention, even adulation, which means they have more than anything an opportunity to lead my example.  To show people with or without powers that people of good character can make a difference, it's aspirational really."

[Blarghy]

"You still can't infringe on other peoples' property or safety, whether you do it with a gun or with laser eye beams," Tristan answered.  The others seemed to have covered the moral and motivational issues behind the question, so he aimed in a slightly different direction.  "Society should be tolerant, but that doesn't mean allowing different citizens to hurt one another without just cause.  I don't think that'll change even if exceptional people become more common.  Sure, once you move past the clear-cut cases like assault and theft, you can find some murky gray areas, but throughout our history and even beyond this planet, the most common laws are designed to prevent harm.  Exceptionals have to keep that in mind just like anyone else."

[Ari]

Casually putting the disgusting foodstuffs to one side, Dol-Druth settled into a slight hunch over the holo-cor, his fat fingers a blur over the illusory keys as he busily summarized the answers and entered them into the datagate. It was hard to represent societal and cultural forces across staggeringly complex interspecies lines but luckily Lor science was up to the challenge.

 

"So it all comes down to individuals and giving them a productive, safe environment where they won't be as likely to turn to crime. But given the rapid expansion of human population and the exponential drain on your local resources, can this be achieved with human nature as you know it? We admit, number 4," the Dotrae looked at Mike as he said this "that it is inaccurate to think of exceptional members of your race as not actually being part of you, but often their...gifts result in a different perspective and the difference in ability between one of you and an exceptional member can be disastrous. Our predecessor as Speaker was able to suppress the will of the many he used, operating almost as a lonemind himself." The pallid alien's smooth face wrinkled and twisted at the memory and the reference to the singular "All of Dotrae was held as partly responsible, and publicly chastised and fined by the Rotunda of Justice. Reparations are still being allotted to those he defrauded and wronged." 

 

"The next questions are these: with the assumption that some of your exceptionals will always, under current human nature, turn to crime given the proper environment and/or impetus, what is the most likely change in the culture of your Earth-born exceptionals to prevent catastrophe? Is that their responsibility at all? Can you hold them accountable without exceptional support,  and should you?"

[angrydurf]

"Human nature is a tricky point really."  Mike mussed quietly, "The only truly universal trait of humanity is it's ability to build social structures and physical structures for that matter in violation of the resting state of nature."  he counters thoughtfully.  "We can reason thus we can hold value in things beyond the natural drives to survive and continue our genetic legacy."  he glances at the others with a sad shrug, "That some apply such value to accumulation of wealth or power at the expense of others is no more natural than those who would sacrifice all to help a stranger."

 

Listening carefully to the next question Mike shook his head, "It's everyone's responsibility."  he countered quickly, "All people of good intention ought do within their ability what they can, that is the only insulation one can have against bad actors empowered or not."  With a short pause he considers his next statement carefully, "It is perhaps naive of me but I believe Humanity can get there, together, they may need a nudge here and there or someone to show the way, likely several someones really, but it can and I hope it will."

[Blarghy]

"We have an old proverb in some of our cultures: 'It takes a village to raise a child,'" Tristan said, with a tilt of his head toward Dol-Druth, in agreement with his first sentence, which Tristan thought made a good start to answering the alien's own question.  He elaborated, "When we all work together to create and maintain cooperative, understanding, nurturing environments, then we're more likely to create and maintain cooperative, understanding, and nurturing people.  Sometimes the worst situations can bring out the best, bravest behavior, but more often, they desensitize us to the violence we see.  Desperate times can produce desperate people.  I believe in personal responsibility, but I also think we're products of our environments to some extent, so when humans go bad, it is, again to some extent, the fault of those around them, who couldn't or wouldn't prevent it earlier.  Our exceptionals are still relatively few in number; they can't, by themselves, change the world to keep people from turning bad at the start.  That's a job for humanity as a whole.  Our heroes have to settle for fixing problems after they're already problems, which, sad to say, usually has to come down to fire and punches."

 

He made a tiny frown, privately thinking about the many thugs Leviathan had knocked flying, and wondered how responsible he, Tristan, was for not finding a way to keep it from being necessary at all.  Something to consider further, once this discussion ran its course.

 

"On the other hand, as we're learning more and more about our brains and neurochemistry, we're beginning to see that some of us are just born broken.  Rare individuals never have the chance to be anything other than selfish and violent; it isn't their fault, or the fault of their communities, and we're left with no one to blame and few ways to help.  Hopefully we can solve or lessen that particular problem as our technology and understanding grows. 

 

"Either of these routes to evil hold true for standard humans and for exceptional ones.  As I said before, I don't see much inherent difference between a manufactured weapon or a natural one, like great strength or control of the elements; we all just use the tools we have to accomplish the goals we choose.  The solutions we create to keep the average person on a good, ethical path should work for heroes too.  What really separates heroes and non-heroes?  I think that exceptionals are more like us than we often think, just...bigger."

[Ari]

Leaning back to give his elbows a break, Dol-Druth nodded along with #1-4 as they outlined their views, which were quite optimistic.

 

"It takes a village to raise a child." It was hard for the manymind to disagree with a saying like that. Dotrae had been collectively raising their young since before modern humans existed, and younger cultures too often hoarded and fetishized their children as prizes and status symbols. On Zultas, letting another parent your child was just asking for the destruction of your house and all you owned. Or just outsourced infanticide.

 

Maybe it's too soon to say

We have not pressed

 

"Very encouraging, introspection," the planet inspector said after a long silence "but is there much interest in that kind of unison? It is hardly a secret that on Earth, like on many other developing worlds, cooperation and compromise are seen as a sign of weakness. What could change this? Is this already changing? What is the likely effect of regionally-speciated exceptionals on this process? Given the encouragement of violence among baseline humans, is New Freedom likely to lose the benefits of its neutrality in the case of international cooperation?"

 

Starting, the Speaker realized he had been reciting the programme text verbatim. Scowling irritably he dumped the remainder of his muffin into the now stone-cold coffee and tipped his head back to empty the lot down his throat. Swallowing noisly, the visiting Lor muttered "Sorry."

 

"If I may ask, would open interstellar contact help this process as well? With the wormhole to Magna-Lor, and this planet the site of many rare artifacts and certain minerals, commerce is likely to start with your world's underworld very soon."

[angrydurf]

Mike crossed his arms across his broad chest and nodded thoughtfully to the rapid sequence of questions smiling slightly at the aliens adjustment to earths native conversational styles.  "I wouldn't say they are seen as signs of weakness actually."  he corrected politely, "On the surface in the most bombastic rhetoric certainly there is a disdain and desire to paint the 'other' as irredeemable."  he acknowledged fairly with a small shrug, "But on the interpersonal level co-operation and compromise are highly valued."  he pointed out with an easy smile.  "We gather readily into organizations to build community and common goals from grand national platforms to small niche interests and community organizing."  Mike explains with a casual interest. 

 

He looked to the others for agreement or dissent before continuing "For our children teamwork and co-operative learning not only comes naturally but is highly encouraged."  he adds and pauses to consider the counterexamples that clearly exist in more nationalist rhetoric or in the cases of rogue states such as New Freedom or Socotra.  "Individual freedoms and self direction are highly valued among humanity, but working toward the common good, as interpreted by a given group, is the end goal of even dissenting voices."  Mike carefully lays out, "Agreement on that common good is all that is lacking and exposure to a wider interstellar community is likely in time to galvanize those goals more concretely."  he opines and falls silent realizing he'd been edging toward preachy, "At least that is my expectation."

[Blarghy]

The huge-but-gentle man's response gave Tristan time to think.  He was less interested in the original flurry of questions than the last one; it called back to his concerns of this alien's motives.  Why was Dol-Druth really here?  The Freedom League (supposedly) cleared his presence on Earth, but just because he wasn't a gun-waving maniac didn't mean he wasn't dangerous.  Whether he was primarily gathering information or priming humanity for contact with his galactic empire, Tristan once again found himself a bit suspicious. 

 

"Forced isolation tends not to last, on a national scale like we previously discussed, or for entire planets," he said slowly, his voice more neutral now.  "I think we'll take part in galactic trade and politics more and more as time goes on.  It will, hopefully, be beneficial for everyone.  Of course, it pays to be watchful of one's neighbors even during times of peace; as you've pointed out, the universe is a dangerous place, full of people with bad intentions.  Thankfully, we have our exceptionals."

[Ari]

Dol-Druth looked for a minute like he had frozen stiff, not even the faintly darker circle of his pupils twitched to read the screen of the holo-cor.

 

Quote

 

But we still don't know if these people are exceptionals!

And we cannot ask.

What if we asked some more-?

No. This is the end.

The form has additional, follow-up questions.

True. But those are for higher officials, not for ordinary citizens. 

Besides, we cannot ignore the consistency of these answers.

Yes. At least we know that the exceptionals are not curtailing thought or action outside of criminality.

Well...

We are splitting spores now, this is inspection, data-mining. This is all we need from regular people.

Any objections, Dol-Druth?

 

 

"None." 

 

Blinking as if just waking up, the Speaker coughed awkwardly and tapped his holo-cor's monitor with a pudgy white digit, retracting the "pages" of light back into itself just before collapsing into the portable computer's body. He looked gravely at the humans, leaning his elbows on the table.

 

"Thank you for your cooperation and time. You have been of enormous help to us in dispelling my initial doubts and uncertainties. Now, do you have any questions for us?"

 

He didn't seem to notice the momentary lapse into the singular.

[Blarghy]

Tristan decided to just lay his cards on the table.  Some of them, anyway. 

 

"What were you uncertain about?" he wanted to know.  "What's the purpose of all this?  Are you trying to court Earth and humanity into your empire?  I can see the usefulness of speaking with regular people--" Hah, if he knew... "--before going to our political leaders, but if that's your goal, you'll need a lot more of these little coffee-stand talks to soothe the concerns of an entire species."  He explained bluntly, "Empires tend to make us nervous, as a general rule."

[Ari]

"The weight of exceptionals on every society which tries to integrate them is like a neutron star. We and our superiors are always wary about the effect they have on a culture, but yours do not even have some similar attribute or point of origin, like our mentats, to create a steadying effect. Yours can do, in theory...anything. We are afraid."

 

Resting his chins on his chest, Dol-Druth considered the fate of Zultas' mentally-gifted. That was an almost unheard-of anomaly. Here they stood in judgement over practically all life on the planet.

 

"We well understand your concern, number one. On most worlds we visit our intentions are suspected and our motives scrutinized. Some alien comes from the stars and starts asking questions about the people who protect you from other aliens. 'Do you trust them? What are your weaknesses?' Who could not be suspicious of that? They want you to trust them but can offer nothing, only vague promises. It was only recently that we were allowed to ask for permission to protect others."

 

"It is our custom to go from the bottom and work our way up. But we must, again, have permission. So far we are confined to this city, in time the rest of your world will be open to us. The League is trusted almost everywhere, because everyone knows they do not want to change the world, but whatever we bring back will soon be known to others, and your leaders know they will want to change the Earth."

 

"By necessity and law I cannot and should not try to "smooth over" such understandable worries. This is not final. If your people do not now want to join us, there is a very long time before that is likely to trouble anyone in your lifetimes. The sole practical purpose of our visit is to observe the changes in your civilization, find out what you think, take it back to my superiors and let them figure out when the next visit should be. If any should be made."

 

Quote

Thank you, Nesh-Est, may I resume?

Aw, that was fun, never smelled coffee before

Pray you never do again, and that you never taste it