Help Refreshing Characters?

[KnightDisciple]

So, as stated elsewhere, I'm working on coming back to the forums/the game (IT'S ALL ABOUT THE GAME....AND HOW YOU PLAY IT!!!!). 

And my top priorities are Thoughtspeed (sheet here) and Nevermore (sheet here). 

But complicating matters is the news that we've shifted how rewards are done? And now the highest reward is applied to all characters, if desired? I'm still a bit fuzzy on how it works...Gabriel is my highest-reward/"level" character. I believe he was at Gold or Platinum when I went inactive (sheet says progress to Impervium...). So I'm not sure what that means for TS and NM?

 

I guess this thread has 2 purposes. 

1.) Help me understand how the Reward Level interacts with these 2 characters in particular, especially in light of me likely not bringing Gabriel back for a bit yet (not saying he's permanently retired, though).

2.) Help/insights/suggestions on breathing a bit of life into both sheets (without completely remaking them). Both characters have been given some time to go off and train and grow and such. So I've got room for some work there. 

 

Thoughtspeed is probably okay mostly as-is, I'm sure when I get to actually looking at him I'll tweak him, but still. 

 

Nevermore, though, is a bit more complicated. I've got a vague idea of what to get him to eventually. I know what he drives now, will drive, will fly, and where he does/will take roost.

Ultimately, this guy will be Raven 3/4 (depending on how we count Geckoman!Raven. 

But he's not there yet, and I want to preserve that while maybe giving him a bit more to work with. 

 

I'm not trying to make other people do all the work (obviously the fluffy stuff is done, and any "but where has he been!" can be answered easily enough, especially as with Nevermore it could just be said "watching. waiting. planning." without too much irony).

 

As a note, Thoughtspeed's going to be graduating this May, but Nevermore won't graduate until next year. 

[Thevshi]

Hey KD!  So, to address your two questions (though mainly the first one): 

1)  The new reward tracking system is tied to the player, and not individual characters.

It is probably best to explain how the new reward system will work in your particular case.  Gabe has the most advancement toward your next veteran award tier, and we use the progress Gabe has as your "starting point" under the new system.  So we create a record for you in the guide book (Member Progress Reference) that uses what Gabe currently has toward Impervium and lists your various characters and veteran awards earned (and we recently created a new award for players who have maxed out a character, like you have as well). 

So, going forward, each month when we count your posts and give characters PPs, the highest PP earned by any of your characters will then be added to your advancement toward Impervium.  (So, if this month Thoughtspeed gets the most with 3PP, those 3 PP are added in, if next month Nevermore gets the most with 4 PP, those 4 get added in, ect).  You never have to play Gabe again to continue using the advancement he made toward Impervium (but of course can play him all you want). 

2)  I have a bit less to say on this at the moment without looking at your characters, though as I recall they were both pretty well built, so I am not sure there has to be any major changes.  I can take a look and see if I see anything though.

[KnightDisciple]

-So, I've seen the Member Progress Reference section. I'm guessing once I'm really active again we'll list me there? (I'm going to try and hunt down where the actual Reward Levels themselves are listed to refresh myself.)

-Someone made a comment that kind of gave me the impression that my characters could be rebuilt to a higher PL or at least a higher PP count, but that might be wrong...

 

-As far as rebuilds, it looks like I've got 17PP unspent on Thoughtspeed right now. He's currently an Attack and Defense shifted PL 8 built with a PL11's power point pool (say that 5 times fast). I guess I could just up the numbers but I'm open to suggestions and thoughts on how to streamline what he does, at least. 

 

-Nevermore, on the other hand, has the "issue" that I ultimately want him to be Not!Batman. But the limits of the system mean that's not actually possible. I need to go back and think over what I want him to specialize in (and definitely not do so in a way that feels like it copies Midnight/Trevor Hunter too much). But advice on how to help him shine in a few areas but not be a total dum-dum in others (that are within the "unpowered crime-fighting detective shadowy scary vigilante" bailiwick, that is) is always welcome. 

[Tiffany Korta]

We rejigged rewards a little to make thing simpler, so you new character slots can start at PL12. So if you wished you could rebuild Thoughtspeed and Sun Walker to PL12 if you wished.

[Thevshi]

Well, what Tiff means is that with your first Reward Character Slot, the character can be PL 8 (120PP); PL 10 (150PP) or PL 12 (180PP), at your discretion, instead of the way it used to be (which was a bit of a pain to track). 

Currently, your progress entry would roughly look like this:

 

Veteran Progress: 123 / 150

Basic Character Slots: 

• PL 10 / 150:
• PL 10 / 150:
• PL 7 / 105:  

Veteran Rewards: ? / 5 Spent 

• Slot 1:
• Slot 2:
• Slot 3:
• Slot 4:
• Slot 5:

 

Retired Characters: N/A

 

 

Clearly I have not placed any of your existing characters into the various slots, but yes, you have more than enough reward slots (assuming you have not used some for Equipment/sidekicks/etc) to remake most of your lower PL characters start in reward slots, meaning their base PP could be up to 180 (plus whatever you have earned with them thus far).

 

If you let me know what rewards you have, or have not spent, I can get your reward tracking entry done (will save the need to go back and fix if I make incorrect guess on how things should be).

[Brown Dynamite]

Plus since the character's been earning pp for a while.  No one would really complain if it was done like a bump.  In which the character got rollover bonus if turning the slot to a higher PL slot.  I forgoed it the second time I put Argonaut in a higher PL slot, but took rollover the first time (She's moved from an 8-10-12 slot type).

 

As for suggestions for differentiating Nevermore from.  I have to say focus is what matters most.  Costumed Detective types are going to be a bit of generalists by design.  But, focus can separate one from.  Does he invent his own gadgets in the future?  Or maybe he's a less is more type of cowl using a handful of gadgets or even martial arts?  There's always the cowl battlesuit route (the Raven costume you have planned could get more jumped up while still being limited enough for street focus only).

[KnightDisciple]

Let's see...

I'll worry about who's active first later....

 

Gabriel is my first character, and isn't using any Rewards. So he's just 250 of 250, 123/150 to Impervium.

Cobalt Templar would, I guess, be my 2nd "basic" slot (the PL7/105 slot). He has no Rewards spent on him. He's at 225PP, having thus earned 120PP himself. 

Thoughtspeed was my 3rd Basic Slot, the 2nd PL10 slot. No Rewards spent. He's at 177, having earned 27pp.

Nevermore was made with my Gold Reward Slot. He was made at...I think 120PP, because he's earned 23PP and is at a total of 143PP right now. He has 4 ranks of the Equipment feat paid for by my Bronze Award.

Sun Walker...I guess we could say he was made with my Silver Reward? Really, I'd say it's a bit interchangeable, but let's go with that. He has no additional rewards spend on him. He's at 154PP, having earned 4PP. 

 

So that would leave me...my Platinum Reward and my Maxed Out Character award, yes? 

[Thevshi]

We do not have to really differentiate between "Bronze award", "Silver award" etc, because they are all the same now.  This is roughly what things look like then KD: 

Veteran Progress: 123 / 150

Basic Character Slots: 

• PL 10 / 150: Gabriel
• PL 8 / 150: Thoughtspeed (uses PL 10 slot)
• PL 7 / 105: Cobalt Templar 

Veteran Rewards: 3 / 5 Spent 

• Slot 1: Sun Walker (PL 10/ 150 PP, could be built up to PL 12/180 PP, plus what he has already earned)
• Slot 2: Nevermore (originally built as PL 8/120 PP, could be built up to PL 8-12/180 PP, plus what he has already earned)
• Slot 3: Equipment 4 to Nevermore (11 PP unspent)
• Slot 4: Unspent          
• Slot 5: Unpsent 

Retired Characters:

• Fenris

 

This of course assumes you bring all these active characters back. 

[KnightDisciple]

18 minutes ago, HG Morrison said:

Plus since the character's been earning pp for a while.  No one would really complain if it was done like a bump.  In which the character got rollover bonus if turning the slot to a higher PL slot.  I forgoed it the second time I put Argonaut in a higher PL slot, but took rollover the first time (She's moved from an 8-10-12 slot type).

 

As for suggestions for differentiating Nevermore from.  I have to say focus is what matters most.  Costumed Detective types are going to be a bit of generalists by design.  But, focus can separate one from.  Does he invent his own gadgets in the future?  Or maybe he's a less is more type of cowl using a handful of gadgets or even martial arts?  There's always the cowl battlesuit route (the Raven costume you have planned could get more jumped up while still being limited enough for street focus only).

I think I figured out what my Slot usage *was*. The question is if I want to reorganize things any, maybe use some Rewards to free up PP on Gabriel and CT to bump things a bit, or dump multiple Equipment Rewards all on Damien Jean-Paul Valley Nevermore.

 

As far as the general vision...

-He uses at least some gadgets, but much more of a "supplemental" role. The biggest "punch" I see them being is Ravenrangs, maybe some sort of "electro-shock gauntlet", that sort of thing. If I really want to play up his inspiration, maybe some sort of high-tech sword that can be less-than-lethal if he wants. 

--He would not invent the gadgets, though; they'd be acquired by other means. He would maybe have enough skill to repair them, though.

-He's certainly going to be more martial-arts focused in fights; most of his gadgets would be for things like "crime scene scanner", "hacker tools", etc. 

-His suit should normally be somewhere along the lines of the Arkham Knight suit; armored but flexible, and fundamentally not powered armor. 

--I might make use of our rule that allows "alternate builds" and have an "Armored Raven". Just in case one of the Paragons goes rogue, you understand. Possibly with Impervium Plating and Daka Crystal Wave Emitters or some such. 

-He makes regular use of the Rookery (maybe justifying a Gadget that lets him Hack by way of saying "uplink to the Rookery computers), as well as his Vehicles. 

 

To make a slightly trope-y summation: He's a Ninja Detective Vigilante Cowl with a Big Bike, Big Car-Tank-Thing, and Big Plane-Copter-Jet-Airship-Thing, stored in his Awesome Cave. 

 

 

4 minutes ago, Thevshi said:

We do not have to really differentiate between "Bronze award", "Silver award" etc, because they are all the same now.  This is roughly what things look like then KD: 

Veteran Progress: 123 / 150

Basic Character Slots: 

• PL 10 / 150: Gabriel
• PL 8 / 150: Thoughtspeed
• PL 7 / 105: Cobalt Templar 

Veteran Rewards: ? / 5 Spent 

• Slot 1: Sun Walker (PL 10/ 150 PP, could be built up to PL 12/180 PP, plus what he has already earned)
• Slot 2: Nevermore (originally built as PL 8/120 PP, could be built up to PL 8-12/180 PP, plus what he has already earned)
• Slot 3: Equipment 4 to Nevermore (11 PP unspent)
• Slot 4: Unspent          
• Slot 5: Unpsent 

Retired Characters:

• Fenris

 

This of course assumes you bring all these active characters back. 

 

That looks about right, though now that I think about it maybe some of that Equipment Reward is spent elsewhere, I'll have to check.

 

I might at least start off with all characters nominally "back", and just focus on a couple for now. 

 

I do appreciate the help so far, guys. If nothing else it gives me an idea of what I have to work with.

[Thevshi]

I will create your award tracking record KD.  Want me to unarchive Gabe, Templar, TS, Nevermore and Sun Walker?

[KnightDisciple]

1 hour ago, Thevshi said:

I will create your award tracking record KD.  Want me to unarchive Gabe, Templar, TS, Nevermore and Sun Walker?

Hm. Yeah. I can always properly retire someone later on. Thank you for the assistance. 

[KnightDisciple]

A question I'll pose to our Refs....(putting this here due to lack of an idea on where else to put it)

 

Would it be acceptable to have a character with Gadgets use a few points of said Power to give himself Masterwork Tools (which provide a +2 bonus to a skill)? Said character has the feat Improvised Tools, so this isn't about "I don't want him at a negative", but rather what seems (to me) an easier way to simulate having the niftiest tools on hand virtually all the time, rather than spending a bunch of static ranks of EP on said Masterwork Tools.

If it's felt this is a bit too much, that's fine, but I feel like it's worth asking. 

[angrydurf]

I think for Gadgets the easiest way to handle that is just to buy enhanced skill +1 or +2 dependant on gadget ranks (house rule no more ranks of skills or feats than ranks of gadgets IIRC)  with masterwork tools as the descriptor.  Otherwise you're getting into the thing of equipment within not only a VP but a VP already getting the device discount when equipment is discounted for being easily taken away by the GM.  Alternatively you could Build it with a complication of losing a point or two of related skills when his gadgets are taken away representing the loss of high end tools and having to improvise?  Though that is a bit like not having improvised tools so yea...

[KnightDisciple]

18 hours ago, angrydurf said:

I think for Gadgets the easiest way to handle that is just to buy enhanced skill +1 or +2 dependant on gadget ranks (house rule no more ranks of skills or feats than ranks of gadgets IIRC)  with masterwork tools as the descriptor.  Otherwise you're getting into the thing of equipment within not only a VP but a VP already getting the device discount when equipment is discounted for being easily taken away by the GM.  Alternatively you could Build it with a complication of losing a point or two of related skills when his gadgets are taken away representing the loss of high end tools and having to improvise?  Though that is a bit like not having improvised tools so yea...

Yeah it's a sticky wicket.

I talked it over with Gizmo some (our resident Ref who uses Gadgets the most I'd wager!), and what I ultimately decided on was not to worry about trying to replicate Equipment with Gadgets; I might buy 1 or 2 Masterwork Items, but otherwise I'll rely on Improvised Tools, Jack of All Trades, and Beginner's Luck (along with a statline with several 20's in it by the end) to get me most of the way.

Gadgets, I'll use to instead give me Powers that can help represent the end result of a skill check.

 

So rather than using Gadgets to give me a +2 Medicine check, I'll just whip out a low-powered Healing effect ("Would you prefer the brown band-aids, or the colorful dinosaurs?").

Rather than trying to represent lockpicks, I'll just use Damage ("I've got some explosive gel that will take care of the lock").

And so on. 

 

I mean yeah I could buy temporary Enhanced Skill ranks but going beyond +1-3 feels cheat-y. And at that point (a point Gizmo made well), why actually invest in said skill ranks?

 

Still, I do appreciate the feedback, angrydurf!

 

Feel free to give other suggestions if something strikes your attention/fancy. 

[N/A]

You can technically build a Gadgets variable at two different tiers, "Any Power, Multiple powers at once" or "Any Trait, Multiple traits at once."  There's a 1PP per rank difference.  And while you could make a case for using the cheaper "Any power" tier to effectively be "Any trait" by grabbing "Enhanced" traits, if you're building in good faith, you should really opt for the more expensive tier if you plan to grab skills, feats, etc. instead of just powers.

[N/A]

Also, I think you could sidestep the issue of the Equipment discount in the variable power pool by just buying the +2 circumstance bonus from temporary Masterwork tools with a temporary 1PP Feature power.

Edited June 17, 2016 by ShaenTheBrain