New Player Hero Help

[dementedwombat]

Hi, I just bought the Mutants and Masterminds rulebook a couple days ago and thought it looked rather interesting. I went looking for an online M&M game and found this site. I have a basic understanding of the rules (I've always been pretty good at learning these kind of things) but aren't that familiar with all the nuances.

Anyway, I have a concept for a hero and would like some help fleshing him out. His name is Neo-Knight (for the moment anyway). The basic backstory is that he is the last descendant of the Knights of the Round Table and is the rightful bearer of Excalibur. Recognizing that super-powered threats are too powerful for any man to stop, he has been appointed the bearer of an intricately crafted suit of power-armor. This allows him to stand up with other heroes and hold his own.

Powers:

1. He is a member of the Knights of the Round Table (benefit feat)

2. He has a battlesuit providing him with armor, increased strength, and life support

3. He carries the legendary sword Excalibur; capable of cutting through a tank and shooting bolts of mystical energy.

I'd appreciate any recommendations on powers and any other creation advice. I'm pretty sure this guy would be PL10.

[Geez3r]

Well from what you've said already, it looks pretty straight forward.

1) You've got that covered.

2) You'll want this to be a Hard to Lose Device. Each rank costs 4 and gives you 5 PP to mess around with. Armor can be represented by Protection, making your more resistant to being hurt, maybe with the Impervious extra. Increased Strength is just Enhanced Strength, possibly with some Super-Strength thrown in. And then just top it off with Immunity (life support), which means your immune to poison, disease, all environmental conditions, and you don't need to breath (or the suit takes care of that need for you).

3) You'll want this to be an Easy to Lose Device. Each rank costs 3 and gives you 5 PP to mess around with. As it's a sword, you'll want the strike power with the Mighty extra, which basically means it's pointy and it also relies on the weilder's strength. You'll also want to tack on the Penetrating extra as well. To represent the mystical energy, have an alternate power be a Blast.

Next to get the specifics, you'll have to worry about Trade-offs. First off is Defense vs. Toughness. I think in your case, you'll want to favor Toughness instead of Defense, but this is just me projecting here. Then for Attack vs DC modifier, I can't really say. To you want to be accurate as all get out, but not particularly damaging, or unable to hit the broad side of a barn, but be able to instantly cut down anything larger, or just split the difference. Anyway you slice it.... just realized what a bad pun that was.... I don't think you'll want to go for a huge trade-off, probably about a 1 or a 2, to represent both skill at the sword and being quite powerful.

Then, you'll want to figure out where your abilities come from. Are they all yours, due they come from mostly the weapons and armor, or do you split the difference. This is more of a concept choice than anything else, just go with what you think fits the concept better.

So to summarize:

1) Figure out your trade-offs.

2) Are you home grown or empowered?

3) Fill in the blanks for Ability scores, Powers and Combat.

Then you'll have a nice solid framework for your character, and you ca then mess around with skills, feats and saves. If you go over the 150 PP limit, don't worry, with some rules fu we can get you back under the limit.

[Dr Archeville]

The Mystic Knight archetype from Book of Magic sounds like almost exactly what you want, though that Knight's sword doesn't shoot mystic energy bolts. Though, then again, neither did Excalibur ;)

[dementedwombat]

Edit: Now I'm reading this again, would the cost of the mighty and penetrating extras add to my increased strength, or just the cost of the penetrating extra?

I've got a basic stat block worked up. Unfortunately, that Mighty extra is really expensive! This build actually ended up being 159 Power Points. Below is my "dream character;" now I have to get him down to legal limits.

One more question. Can those feats like "all out attack" push your bonus past the power level maximum?

Players Name: dementedwombat

Power Level: 10

Character's Name: Neo-Knight

Alternate Identity: Sir Ashcroft Pendragon (uses Sir Ashcroft)

Height: 6'3"

Weight: 195lb

Hair: Black

Eyes: Grey

Description:

History:

Neo-Knight is the last descendant of the King Arthur and is the rightful bearer of Excalibur. Recognizing that super-powered threats are too powerful for any man to stop, he has been appointed the bearer of an intricately crafted suit of power-armor. This allows him to stand up with other heroes and hold his own.

The Knights of the Round Table are a secret society dedicated to the protection of humanity from super-criminals (especially those of the mystical sort). It is composed of the knights themselves, as well as servants (called Squires) that ensure the knights are taken care of, they have transportation, and their armor is maintained.

Stats: 30PP

Str: 15/25 (+2/+7) (15pp from Mighty/Penetratng)

Dex: 15 (+2)

Con: 13 (+1)

Int: 12 (+1)

Wis: 14 (+2)

Cha: 11 (+0)

Combat: 32PP

Attack: +10

Defense: +8

Initiative: +6

Grapple: +12

Saves: 15PP

Toughness: +2/+12

Fortitude: +6

Reflex: +7

Will: +7

Skills: 10PP

craft (mechanical) 8/+9

Knowledge (Arcane Lore, Current Events, Tactics) 5/+6

Bluff 10/+10

Notice 7/+9

Feats: 11PP

bennefit (knights of the round table)

Wealth x1

Improved Critical (strike)

Fighting Style: sword fighting (Accurate Attack, Defensive Attack,

Improved Block, Improved Disarm, Improved Initiative, Power Attack,

Taunt.)

Powers: 69PP

Device (battlesuit; hard to loose) 48PP

Protection 10 [impervious 10] 20PP

Immunity 9 (life support) 9PP

Enhanced strength 10 [mighty 10, penetrating 10] 30PP

Device (Excalibur; easy to loose) 15PP

Strike 7 [mighty 7, penetrating 7] 21PP

Alternate power: Blast 10

Drawbacks: +7PP

Code of Honor (common/moderate) +3PP

Normal Identity (common/major) [full round action] +4PP

DC Block:

ATTACKS: SAVE DC: DAMAGE TYPE:

Strike 7 29/Toughness lethal or nonlethal

Blast 10 25/Toughness nonlethal

unarmed strike 22/Toughness nonlethal

Costs: Abilities (30) + Combat (32) + Saves (15) + Skills (10) + Feats (10) + Powers (69) - Drawbacks (07) = 160PP

[Dr Archeville]

You don't need Mighty on your Enhanced Strength.

[Veiled Malice]

Edit: Now I'm reading this again, would the cost of the mighty and penetrating extras add to my increased strength, or just the cost of the penetrating extra?

Mighty actually isn't an extra. It's a feat, so it only costs one point. However, you do have to apply Penetrating to your STR, but only your STR bonus. You currently have it applied to every point, but would only need Penetrating 7. You can purchase more points of Penetrating than you have STR bonus, but it's normally unnecessary.

One more question. Can those feats like "all out attack" push your bonus past the power level maximum?

Not really. It's a trade-off, so while it can push your attack/damage equation over the normal limits, it brings your defense/toughness down under the caps. So yes, in that way, I suppose it can.

Str: 15/25 (+2/+7) (15pp from Mighty/Penetratng)

Dex: 15 (+2)

Con: 13 (+1)

Int: 12 (+1)

Wis: 14 (+2)

Cha: 11 (+0)

I'm wondering why you have odd numbered characteristics. They don't give you a bonus unless they're even.

Combat: 32PP

Attack: +10

Defense: +8

Initiative: +6

Grapple: +12

You can only purchase Attack and Defense. Initiative and Grapple are figured characteristics, based off of DEX bonus and STR bonus + Attack bonus + any further grapple bonuses (Size modifiers, super-strength, etc.) respectively. As it stands, you have an Initiative of +2 and a Grapple of +17.

Also, you have a +14 damage attack, which means your Attack bonus can only be a max of +6.

Saves: 15PP

Toughness: +2/+12

Fortitude: +6

Reflex: +7

Will: +7

You're good here.

Skills: 10PP

craft (mechanical) 8/+9

Knowledge (Arcane Lore, Current Events, Tactics) 5/+6

Bluff 10/+10

Notice 7/+9

You've only used 30 skill points out of the 40 you purchased. Each pp gets you 4 skill points.

Feats: 11PP

bennefit (knights of the round table)

Wealth x1

Improved Critical (strike)

Fighting Style: sword fighting (Accurate Attack, Defensive Attack,

Improved Block, Improved Disarm, Improved Initiative, Power Attack,

Taunt.)

I only count ten pp used here.

Powers: 69PP

Device (battlesuit; hard to loose) 48PP

Protection 10 [impervious 10] 20PP

Immunity 9 (life support) 9PP

Enhanced strength 10 [mighty 10, penetrating 10] 30PP

Device (Excalibur; easy to loose) 15PP

Strike 7 [mighty 7, penetrating 7] 21PP

Alternate power: Blast 10

You need to note how many levels of Device you purchased. I can figure it out fron the cost, but it needs to be listed as well.

You've only spent 59 points in your battlesuit. Also, I mentioned you don't need to buy mighty more than once. Tack it onto your Strike power. In addition, Penetrating only needs to be bought for STR bonus. I mentioned it up at the top.

Drawbacks: +7PP

Code of Honor (common/moderate) +3PP

Normal Identity (common/major) [full round action] +4PP

Code of Honor is a Complication, not a Drawback.

Costs: Abilities (30) + Combat (32) + Saves (15) + Skills (10) + Feats (10) + Powers (69) - Drawbacks (07) = 160PP

Why do you have 160 pp? It's supposed to be 150 pp.

[Dr Archeville]

You can purchase more points of Penetrating than you have STR bonus, but it's normally unnecessary.

I'm not sure you can do that, much the same as you can't have more ranks in Impervious than you have in actual Toughness.

[Nyrath]

Why do you have 160 pp? It's supposed to be 150 pp.

This build actually ended up being 159 Power Points. Below is my "dream character;" now I have to get him down to legal limits.

I'm not sure you can do that, much the same as you can't have more ranks in Impervious than you have in actual Toughness.

Jack-a-Knives runs around with Strike 2 [Mighty, Penetrating 18] so I would think that it's legal to at least have a Penetrating score higher than the damage. On the Impervious part, most GMs would likely oppose it but there's nothing I can find the rules which makes it illegal.

[Dr Archeville]

Jack-a-Knives runs around with Strike 2 [Mighty, Penetrating 18] so I would think that it's legal to at least have a Penetrating score higher than the damage. On the Impervious part, most GMs would likely oppose it but there's nothing I can find the rules which makes it illegal.

According to Kenson himself, ol' Jack only aplies as many ranks of Penetrating as the host body has in melee damage, up to a maximum of +18.

[Nyrath]

Fair enough.

I personally see nothing wrong with someone spending more on Penetrating than they've got in straight Damage; it might be simulating an attack capable of, in theory, at least nicking anything, or anyone, not straight out immune to the attack.

[Veiled Malice]

I've got a basic stat block worked up. Unfortunately, that Mighty extra is really expensive! This build actually ended up being 159 Power Points. Below is my "dream character;" now I have to get him down to legal limits.

Overlooked that. Sorry.

[Nyrath]

Understood that, done similar stuff myself at times.

And I understand stating up a "dream-version" of a character first and then filing them down, it tends to be how I end up working. This lady for instance started out two PLs and 230pp over the standard playable level, took a bit of work to file down.

[dementedwombat]

Wow, here I thought I knew what I was doing. Thanks for letting me know. I've corrected some things and explained some other things.

I'm wondering why you have odd numbered characteristics. They don't give you a bonus unless they're even.

As a longstanding player of other d20 RPGs, it's just habit to put odd scores in my character's statistics. That way, I only have to increase the stat by 1 in order to get a higher bonus. It's not really necessary, but I just do it without thinking by this point.

You can only purchase Attack and Defense. Initiative and Grapple are figured characteristics, based off of DEX bonus and STR bonus + Attack bonus + any further grapple bonuses (Size modifiers, super-strength, etc.) respectively. As it stands, you have an Initiative of +2 and a Grapple of +17.

Also, you have a +14 damage attack, which means your Attack bonus can only be a max of +6.

I'm just following the template for what to place (it said to list grapple and initiative bonuses). The +6 initiative is from the Improved Initiative feat. Thanks for pointing out the attack thing, I mixed up the max save DC modifier and the max save bonus on the chart.

You've only used 30 skill points out of the 40 you purchased. Each pp gets you 4 skill points.

I took knowledge in 3 categories. To simplify things, I listed all branches under a single entry. I expanded the list in my new stats.

Here's my revised statistics. I hope these check out better. After taking off all those extra points, I found I had a few left to give a couple new powers. Let me know what you think.

Players Name: dementedwombat

Power Level: 10

Characters Name: Neo-Knight

Alternate Identity: Sir Ashcroft Pendragon (uses Sir Ashcroft)

Height: 6'3"

Weight: 195lb

Hair: Black

Eyes: Grey

Description:

Upon seeing Sir Ashcroft Pendragon, one immediately gets the feeling of old English aristocracy. The man is well built and muscular, and he literally exudes an aura of steady confidence. No one would suspect the wealthy businessman is actually a super hero. Whenever he grips his magical sword Excalibur and says "For Arthur, for Justice, for Camelot!" he is instantly encased in a suit of technologically advanced power armor.

History:

Neo-Knight is the last descendant of the King Arthur and is the rightful bearer of Excalibur. Recognizing that super-powered threats are too powerful for any man to stop, he has been appointed the bearer of an intricately crafted suit of mystical power-armor. This allows him to stand up with other heroes and hold his own.

The Knights of the Round Table has become a secret society dedicated to the protection of humanity from super-criminals (especially those of the mystical sort). It is composed of the knights themselves, as well as servants (called Squires) that ensure the knights are taken care of, that they have transportation, and that their armor is maintained.

Stats: 22PP

Str: 14/22 (+2/+6)

Dex: 14 (+2)

Con: 14 (+2)

Int: 12 (+1)

Wis: 14 (+2)

Cha: 14 (+2)

Combat: 32PP

Attack: +8

Defense: +8

Saves: 30PP

Toughness: +2/+12 (10 impervious)

Fortitude: +12

Reflex: +12

Will: +12

Skills: 10PP

craft (mechanical) 8/+9

Knowledge (Arcane Lore) 5/+6

Knowledge (Current Events) 5/+6

Knowledge (Tactics) 5/+6

Bluff 9/+11

Notice 8/+10

Feats: 15PP

Ambidexterity

Benefit (knights of the round table)

Improved Critical (blast)

Improved Critical (strike)

Leadership

Wealth x2

Fighting Style: sword fighting (added all-out-attack)

(Accurate Attack, All-Out Attack, Defensive Attack, Improved Block, Improved Disarm, Improved Initiative, Power Attack, Taunt)

Powers: 45PP

I: Device 9 (battlesuit; hard to loose) 36PP

1.Protection 10 [impervious 10] 18PP

2.Immunity 9 (life support) 9PP

3.Enhanced strength 8 [penetrating 4] 12PP

4.Flight 3 6PP

II: Device 3 (Excalliber; easy to loose) 9PP

1a.Strike 6 [penetrating 6; mighty; affects insubstantial 2] 15PP

1b.Alternate power: Blast 7

Drawbacks: +4PP

Normal Identity (common/ major) [full round action] +4PP

Complications:

Chivalry. As a knight, Sir Ashcroft has vowed to always protect those in need, always be polite to ladies, and remain virtuous and moderate in all things (Could be interesting if he's put up against a female super villain)

Reliability: Excalibur is an artifact of immense power, but that still doesn't change the fact it is a very old sword. Every once and a while (usually at the most inopportune moment possible) the sword's powers just stop working. The duration of the power loss can range from instantaneous to several minutes; and the only way to recover is to wait until the time's expired.

DC Block:

ATTACKS:                        SAVE DC:             DAMAGE TYPE:                

Strike 6 [penetrating 10]     27/Toughness        lethal or nonlethal

Blast  7                      22/Toughness            nonlethal

unarmed [penetrating 4]       21/Toughness            nonlethal

Costs: Abilities (22) + Combat (32) + Saves (30) + Skills (10) + Feats (15) + Powers (45) - Drawbacks (04) = 150PP

[Dr Archeville]

As a longstanding player of other d20 RPGs, it's just habit to put odd scores in my character's statistics. That way, I only have to increase the stat by 1 in order to get a higher bonus. It's not really necessary, but I just do it without thinking by this point.

It can also be useful for attribute vs. attribute contests (like an arm-wrestling match). If the result on the roll (d20 + relevant attribute modifier) is a tie, winner is the one with the highest ability score. At least, that's one way I've seen odd scores used.

[pookaking]

I'm a noob here so I may have this wrong, but...

You have your Strike DC save listed as 27, but since you are only PL10 wouldn't your max only be DC25 without trade offs to your attack value? I didn't notice any trade offs listed...

I think I may have noticed this problem with a few other characters as well, so maybe that rule isn't used here.

[Heridfel]

The tradeoff wasn't called out explicitly, but his attack bonus is +8 and the attack's save DC is +12, so he has a +2/-2 tradeoff in favor of save DC for his attack side. The same goes for the defense side - Toughness is at +12, and the defense bonus is +8.

[dementedwombat]

So I take it by the lack of rules-bashing that this guy is legal?

So, any suggestions on how to improve this guy (both now before the character's submitted and as he levels up). If not, I guess I'm ready to start playing.

[Dr Archeville]

My one niggling comment/request would be to combine "Benefit (knights of the round table)" and "Wealth x2" into "Benefit 3 (Status [Knight of the Round Table], Wealth 2)".

[Folkert]

Well, there are still two tiny mistakes in the statblock:

I: Device 9 (battlesuit; hard to loose) 36PP

1.Protection 10 [impervious 10] 18PP

Protection 10 [impervious 10] costs 20 PP. (Guess you had it at 9 before.)

II: Device 3 (Excalliber; easy to loose) 9PP

1a.Strike 6 [penetrating 6; mighty; affects insubstantial 2] 15PP

1b.Alternate power: Blast 7

1a already costs the full 15 PP a Device 3 gives so you don't have the PP left to buy Alternate Power 1b.

[dementedwombat]

Protection 10 [impervious 10] costs 20 PP. (Guess you had it at 9 before.)

Thanks for reminding me. I did have it at 9.

1a already costs the full 15 PP a Device 3 gives so you don't have the PP left to buy Alternate Power 1b.

I see, I wasn't clear on how alternate powers worked (I thought they shared power points). So I guess I just have to buy some more ranks of device?

[Dr Archeville]

Or reduce one rank of Penetrating, or one rank of Affects Insubstantial.

[Folkert]

I see, I wasn't clear on how alternate powers worked (I thought they shared power points). So I guess I just have to buy some more ranks of device?

In a way they do since an alternate power will be built on the same maxium of power points as the main power and because they can't be used at the same time they get the great discount of costing only one PP.

Buying another rank of device would give you another 5 points of which one would be used to pay for the AP and the other 4 could be distributed as you see fit. The other option would be to downgrade the Strike power to Penetrating 5 or Affects Insubstantial 1 and use that point to pay for the AP. (Since the main power would still cost 14 PP, the blast could stay at rank 7. )

[dementedwombat]

I get it. I think I'll remove a rank of affects insubstantial. That was just something I threw in there in there because I thought I had extra power points to spend.

Thanks for the help, I understand the rules a lot better now (the mighty feat and alternate powers were the two things I was most confused about, and this character used both of them.)

[dementedwombat]

I've been looking over some of the other builds, and noticed that mine spent lots more points on saves and lots less points on powers. I don't mind that, but it seems rather uncharacteristic to have all my saves maxed out. Does anyone else do that, or should I add some more powers? I do have a rather limited power set.

P.S. Last noob question, I promice.

[Heridfel]

Well, your saves aren't quite maxed out. Saves are allowed up to PL+5, rather than being limited by the defense tradeoff. However, I find that most players undervalue saves. You can have the coolest powers in the world, but if someone beats you on initiative and knocks you out in the first round, it's not much fun.

I find that a good rule of thumb for saves is PL x 3, spread across Fortitude, Reflex, and Will. One of them tends to be a little lower than PL, one a little higher, and the last one on the money. You're a little over that to start, but that means that you'll be buying exciting things with your first earned xp, rather than patching up holes.

(That reminds me; Hub needs saves... )